• There have been a couple of accounts stolen via compromised passwords this week, we will continue trying to fix them as they happen but I would suggest everyone change any basic passwords and check if they've been caught in a data breach, in case it affects any other websites with more sensitive personal information that they may also be on

Willow and the Storm

Apr 25, 2010 at 4:22 AM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
"Heavy swords for sale. Suitable for most RPG Protagonists. Apply now!"
Join Date: Jan 1, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 1973
Lace said:
Question - what exactly is this two step alchemy of which you speak? Is it exactly as self evident as it seems?
Also, just round down, having two teir three items should be the only way to make a teir three ending thingy.

andwhyisit said:
Have a witty message come up if someone tries to combine two items of the same element, either that or simply disable the first item's element in the second item selection screen.
Seems to imply that alchemy would consist of selecting the base material, selecting the first element from a menu, then selecting the second element from a subsequent menu.
:/
 
Apr 25, 2010 at 4:24 AM
Been here way too long...
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jan 4, 2008
Location: Lingerie, but also, like, fancy curtains
Posts: 3054
?
Why so :/, chum?


Oh, and answer my question, you fiend.
 
Apr 25, 2010 at 4:30 AM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6206
Age: 37
DragonBoots said:
And 'lo we return to 2-step alchemy.
As it is I've got it figured out for 1-step alchemy so-far.
And this is a case where I'd be willing to sacrifice selection size for streamlining.
I mean, you're in a boss fight with 1 hp left.
Would you rather have to open your inventory once or twice?
I dunno.
Adding a second step is kinda like the "Do you really want to save?" of gaming.
Even if they are on the same screen the same rules apply. When selecting the second material either disable all material of the same element as the first so that they cannot be selected, or display a message saying that they can't use that material if they select it.

DragonBoots said:
That said, it's a very good idea.
Except, of course, the math breaks down pretty quickly.
Basically, in the event a rank 1 and 2 or 2 and 3 are mixed, do I call it a rank 1 or 2 or 3?
If I'm rounding down, only rank 3 can be produce rank 3 items.
If I round up, it makes rank 3 items too accessable.
You have a set of six 1.5 rank, and six 2.5 rank items, as mentioned in my previous post. No rounding.

DragonBoots said:
'Sides, in-game lore will explain why you can't mix Charcoal with Kite Down. :D
Make it a failure item then. Or if it is really bad, K.O. the entire party upon use. :D
 
Apr 25, 2010 at 5:25 AM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
"Heavy swords for sale. Suitable for most RPG Protagonists. Apply now!"
Join Date: Jan 1, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 1973
andwhyisit said:
Even if they are on the same screen the same rules apply. When selecting the second material either disable all material of the same element as the first so that they cannot be selected, or display a message saying that they can't use that material if they select it.

A brief arithmaticization reveals that, in order for this idea to work, I'd need 12 then 9 teleporter slots.

andwhyisit said:
You have a set of six 1.5 rank, and six 2.5 rank items, as mentioned in my previous post. No rounding.

Eh.

andwhyisit said:
Make it a failure item then. Or if it is really bad, K.O. the entire party upon use. :D

lol
Prodigy Parasite already basically does that. :D

Lace said:
?
Why so :/, chum?


Oh, and answer my question, you fiend.

The 2-step alchemy thing?
andwhy had proposed that at the initial stage of the alchemy idea.
 
Apr 25, 2010 at 3:04 PM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6206
Age: 37
DragonBoots said:
A brief arithmaticization reveals that, in order for this idea to work, I'd need 12 then 9 teleporter slots.
Why the extra 9 slots?

In theory...

Upon selecting material 1:
- Turn off player input.
- Turn on a flag saying "material 1 was selected".
- Store material 1's rank (2 bits) and element id (2 bits).
- Disable all menu items of material 1's element.
- Turn on player input.
- Do not exit menu.

Upon selecting material 2:
- Turn off player input.
- Compare material 1 and material 2 and create the item based on elements and rank of the two items.
- Re-enable all menu items of material 1's element.
- Turn off the flag saying "material 1 was selected".
- Exit menu.
- Turn on player input.

Upon cancel:
- Turn off player input.
- Turn off the flag saying "material 1 was selected" if it was on.
- Exit menu.
- Turn on player input.

Two materials, both selected from the same menu.

Again all of this is in theory since I am not familiar of the limitations of the game engine nor how you have set up your alchemy menu.

Specifically what data are you storing in the teleporter slots? Or did you mean that you were using the teleporter menu as the alchemy menu?
 
Apr 25, 2010 at 3:31 PM
Been here way too long...
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jan 4, 2008
Location: Lingerie, but also, like, fancy curtains
Posts: 3054
The problem I think he's tokkin aboot is the fact that there are only 7 teleporter slots.
Mebbe.
 
Apr 25, 2010 at 5:22 PM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
"Heavy swords for sale. Suitable for most RPG Protagonists. Apply now!"
Join Date: Jan 1, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 1973
andwhyisit said:
Why the extra 9 slots?

In theory...

Upon selecting material 1:
- Turn off player input.
- Turn on a flag saying "material 1 was selected".
- Store material 1's rank (2 bits) and element id (2 bits).
- Disable all menu items of material 1's element.
- Turn on player input.
- Do not exit menu.

Upon selecting material 2:
- Turn off player input.
- Compare material 1 and material 2 and create the item based on elements and rank of the two items.
- Re-enable all menu items of material 1's element.
- Turn off the flag saying "material 1 was selected".
- Exit menu.
- Turn on player input.

Upon cancel:
- Turn off player input.
- Turn off the flag saying "material 1 was selected" if it was on.
- Exit menu.
- Turn on player input.

Two materials, both selected from the same menu.

Again all of this is in theory since I am not familiar of the limitations of the game engine nor how you have set up your alchemy menu.

Specifically what data are you storing in the teleporter slots? Or did you mean that you were using the teleporter menu as the alchemy menu?

Well the current flow I have is...

Base Material Selected:
- Prompt player to begin alchemy
- Set the appropriate flag to announce the correct alchemy rank
- Bring up the alchemy (teleport) menu with the 6 items for the rank.
- If the player has 1 or 0 of the required materials, the item will display "You cannot make this" in its description. Otherwise it will display the materials needed
- Player selects an item to create from those possible
- Menu closes and the chosen item is created and placed into the inventory (or its effect applied)
- Player is dropped back to the inventory screen

If the player exits the menu before an item is made, I can't run an event. In such a case, there is no consequences.
 
Apr 25, 2010 at 9:40 PM
Been here way too long...
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jan 4, 2008
Location: Lingerie, but also, like, fancy curtains
Posts: 3054
Clever.
I woulda still been trying to allow the selection of 9 element thingies twice. Your way works better.

You can clear the teleporter, right?
It would be bad if you couldn't.
 
Apr 26, 2010 at 12:42 AM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6206
Age: 37
DragonBoots said:
Well the current flow I have is...

Base Material Selected:
- Prompt player to begin alchemy
- Set the appropriate flag to announce the correct alchemy rank
- Bring up the alchemy (teleport) menu with the 6 items for the rank.
- If the player has 1 or 0 of the required materials, the item will display "You cannot make this" in its description. Otherwise it will display the materials needed
- Player selects an item to create from those possible
- Menu closes and the chosen item is created and placed into the inventory (or its effect applied)
- Player is dropped back to the inventory screen

If the player exits the menu before an item is made, I can't run an event. In such a case, there is no consequences.
Not to give you more work but you might be better off building your own menu from scratch, unless of course you can exceed the 8 slot limit. Instead of selecting the item to create it is better to select the materials since knowing what you are going to get takes half the fun out of it. :D

Plus being restricted to items from my current rank means that I now have less items to choose from. :D

Don't get me wrong, it is a clever idea, but unfortunately it is somewhat restrictive in what both you, and in turn the player, can do.
 
Apr 26, 2010 at 1:31 AM
Been here way too long...
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jan 4, 2008
Location: Lingerie, but also, like, fancy curtains
Posts: 3054
I suppose it could just say "whorefrost + black sand", instead of what will happen in the end, but yeah, being able to mix pretty much randomly should be funs.

Suggestion: an item entitled "a mess", which happens when you mix purple and peanut butter.
 
Apr 27, 2010 at 6:06 AM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
"Heavy swords for sale. Suitable for most RPG Protagonists. Apply now!"
Join Date: Jan 1, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 1973
Lace said:
Clever.
I woulda still been trying to allow the selection of 9 element thingies twice. Your way works better.

You can clear the teleporter, right?
It would be bad if you couldn't.
Eh, I'm gonna have to overhaul the entire thing, anyways.
Forgot to include options for the subtraction of multiple items simultaneously.
How I wish it had parallel processing. XD

And no, teleporter slots can't be cleared.
Setting them to event 0000 just makes them run event 0000.
But I have a work-around.
andwhyisit said:
Not to give you more work but you might be better off building your own menu from scratch, unless of course you can exceed the 8 slot limit. Instead of selecting the item to create it is better to select the materials since knowing what you are going to get takes half the fun out of it. :p

Plus being restricted to items from my current rank means that I now have less items to choose from. :(

Don't get me wrong, it is a clever idea, but unfortunately it is somewhat restrictive in what both you, and in turn the player, can do.
I'm finding it's a case of less it more - Granted I don't give you the option of 9,001 items to make, but if I did that there'd be 8,991 varients of 2 items.
How many different healing potions do you need?! D;
In short, there is only so many useful, balanced, possible things I can allow.
Lace said:
I suppose it could just say "whorefrost + black sand", instead of what will happen in the end, but yeah, being able to mix pretty much randomly should be funs.

Suggestion: an item entitled "a mess", which happens when you mix purple and peanut butter.

I may just list them as item combinations and let the player work out the items made.
Not that much work to change, seeing as each item already has its components listed anyways.
Better yet, I may make it remember what combination does what.
First time you do a combination, it sets a flag that replaces the combination text with the item made. :3

And, uh...
"A mess" is what happens when Warrior gets his hands on a Prodigy Parasite. :p
Or worse yet, a Synthesis Symbiote.
 
Apr 27, 2010 at 6:09 AM
Only Love, Maximum Love, Forever
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: May 6, 2009
Location: somewhere new
Posts: 2137
Age: 28
Prodigy Parasite? Synthesis Symbiote? Pattern sensing powers GO!

On purpose?

And do you have all the combo items worked out already?
 
Apr 27, 2010 at 9:40 AM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6206
Age: 37
DragonBoots said:
I'm finding it's a case of less it more
But only SIX?! o_O

DragonBoots said:
Granted I don't give you the option of 9,001 items to make, but if I did that there'd be 8,991 varients of 2 items.
How many different healing potions do you need?! D;
30 variants was fine. -_-;
 
Apr 29, 2010 at 6:46 AM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
"Heavy swords for sale. Suitable for most RPG Protagonists. Apply now!"
Join Date: Jan 1, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 1973
cultr1 said:
Prodigy Parasite? Synthesis Symbiote? Pattern sensing powers GO!

On purpose?

And do you have all the combo items worked out already?
It may be magic, but it has to have some sort of internal consistancy.
Basically, I decided that opposing elements (eg. air-earth and fire-water) represent a clash -
Air and Earth give healing tonics; where wind errodes the earth, life can sieze hold.
Fire and Water give wild, self-contradictory 'lifeforms'; for was it not in a boiling, hostile, steamy sea that the first replicator formed?

Complimentary elements (air-water, fire-earth) represent transformation -
Air and Water give fire and earth; as the storms generated over seas can rage inland far, spreading ruin.
Fire and Earth give air and water; much like what happens far below your feet under incredible pressure.

Supplimentary elements (air-fire, earth-water) represent creation -
Air and Fire create raw power; ruiniation brought by a fire allowed to breath
Water and Earth create allies; soldiers of stone with fluid grace and liquid shadows that bear the force of a landslide

So, yeah. Combinations are covered.

andwhyisit said:
But only SIX?! o_O


30 variants was fine. -_-;

18; 6 per rank, created from a pool of 15 items.
'Sides, there are OTHER items in the game beside alchemy to consider.
As well, who says this is the only alchemy system I offer?
It is but one school of thought among many~
 
Apr 29, 2010 at 11:58 AM
Been here way too long...
"Ha! Ha! Ha! Mega Man is no match for my Mimiga Man!"
Join Date: May 25, 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 273
Age: 32
This is probably the greatest add-on I've heard about in a Cave Story mod... Alchemy.
 
Apr 30, 2010 at 1:31 AM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6206
Age: 37
DragonBoots said:
18; 6 per rank, created from a pool of 15 items.
'Sides, there are OTHER items in the game beside alchemy to consider.
As well, who says this is the only alchemy system I offer?
It is but one school of thought among many~
But it is my understanding that I can only create items associated with my current rank. So short of changing rank at will I can only create 6 items.
 
Apr 30, 2010 at 5:40 AM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
"Heavy swords for sale. Suitable for most RPG Protagonists. Apply now!"
Join Date: Jan 1, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 1973
andwhyisit said:
But it is my understanding that I can only create items associated with my current rank. So short of changing rank at will I can only create 6 items.

Who says you can't change alchemy rank at will? ;D
Well, not initially, but you do have access to an item eventually that allows you to upgrade your materials for a minimal cost.
Upgrading from rank 3 to rank 1 will give you 3 rank 1 base materials.
It's called a Master Alchemy Set.
This was one of the 'other' alchemy systems I mentioned.
The third I'm still debating over, but will involve plot items.
 
Apr 30, 2010 at 6:09 AM
Only Love, Maximum Love, Forever
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: May 6, 2009
Location: somewhere new
Posts: 2137
Age: 28
DragonBoots said:
Who says you can't change alchemy rank at will? ;D
Well, not initially, but you do have access to an item eventually that allows you to upgrade your materials for a minimal cost.
Upgrading from rank 3 to rank 1 will give you 3 rank 1 base materials.
It's called a Master Alchemy Set.
This was one of the 'other' alchemy systems I mentioned.
The third I'm still debating over, but will involve plot items.
Like in the elder scrolls with the novice alembic, journeyman alembic, and so on until expert?
... c:
 
Apr 30, 2010 at 9:40 PM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
"Heavy swords for sale. Suitable for most RPG Protagonists. Apply now!"
Join Date: Jan 1, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 1973
cultr1 said:
Like in the elder scrolls with the novice alembic, journeyman alembic, and so on until expert?
... c:

I suppose, but only one item (master).
'Course I may make it painful to get... XD
 
May 3, 2010 at 1:51 PM
In front of a computer
"Man, if only I had an apple..."
Join Date: Mar 1, 2008
Location: Grasstown
Posts: 1435
DragonBoots said:
And no, teleporter slots can't be cleared.
Setting them to event 0000 just makes them run event 0000.
But I have a work-around.
If you wanted to make a command for this, a teleporter slot is cleared by shifting down the entries that come after it and then zeroing the resulting duplicate entry.

You could try zeroing only the entry you want to get rid of, though; it may be sufficient. If so, that'd be a pretty short command (just a couple of "copy 0 as a long to this place in memory).
 
Top