Willow and the Storm

Mar 18, 2010 at 9:07 PM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
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As I'm sure you're all aware of by now, work has begun on WatS (formerly F.U.C.K.).
It is at this juncture that I already have the primary story and the main playstyle flushed out. What I don't have is the finest details.
Hence this thread.
If you have an idea for a puzzle, a fetch quest, or even just want me to work in a cameo character of your own, I am open to suggestions.
Of course, WatS will remain a closed beta with only a few given the chance to test it.
This is your chance to get a slice of the alpha pie: If I use your idea you will be added to the shortlist for alpha releases to see it in action.

To streamline the suggest process, please include the following:

What - Is your suggestion a puzzle? A character? An item? A subplot involving a princess, a plumber and a giant spikey turtle?

When - WatS is broken into 3 chapters; 'Beginning', 'Training' and 'War'. Pick a chapter.

Who - Some important characters include Val Gowhal (gunsmith), Hans Brock (town crier), Stephan Glee (local marshal) and Anna Gray (your mother... Seriously, she's your characters mother).

Why - Justify why I should includ this.

Where - Locations of import: Revkin (your villiage, includes the Gunsmiths place, Training ground, Healer and a few other things), Ivory Tower (magic school), Castle Danmoore (home of the local baron and his wife, as well as a center of aristocratic gossip), Basal Cave (Mine and source of important alchemical compounds), Danmoore Farms (More achemical resources), and Outer Plane (A twisted place... Anything more'd gives away plot details).

And of course, a few details about the game's mechanics:
- You can choose between 5 character classes
- There is an alchemy system with numerous different items than can be made
- It is largely an open-world available from the start. You could technically go from your house to the big bad immediately, but that'd be ill-advised.
- Each character class gets a weapon, a skill and an item unique to that class.

Locations will be largely puzzle-driven with difficulty increasing along side the power of the reward granted.
Finally, of importance to mods and admins: As this is a closed release mod and therefore no general demo, I have placed the thread here. When it reaches a point where there is a publicly-available version, please move it to the showcase section.
At this time the thread is largely for discussion and suggestions.
 
Mar 20, 2010 at 10:55 PM
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I think instead of having the world entirely open at the start you should have locations and events open up to you as you learn new skills or create certain items, it is better to encourage exploration. For instance you might need a certain skill or item that opens up an area that has a new compound. In regards to skills you could have a cooking skill, a metalworking skill, etc. that relates to the types of items you can create. Since the player most likely doesn't need a learning curve, just supplies, it makes sense for the character itself to have a learning curve. You could also have a skill level that increases as you continue to make items that use that skill and unlock new items. So you can devote yourself to one skill and get more advanced items faster or devote yourself to multiple skills and create special items that require more than one skill to create.
 
Mar 21, 2010 at 12:16 AM
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andwhyisit said:
I think instead of having the world entirely open at the start you should have locations and events open up to you as you learn new skills or create certain items, it is better to encourage exploration. For instance you might need a certain skill or item that opens up an area that has a new compound. In regards to skills you could have a cooking skill, a metalworking skill, etc. that relates to the types of items you can create. Since the player most likely doesn't need a learning curve, just supplies, it makes sense for the character itself to have a learning curve. You could also have a skill level that increases as you continue to make items that use that skill and unlock new items. So you can devote yourself to one skill and get more advanced items faster or devote yourself to multiple skills and create special items that require more than one skill to create.

Hmm...
Would be tricky to impliment, but I think this is doable.
Any particulars you think would a good idea in terms of items to create?
 
Mar 21, 2010 at 12:33 AM
Been here way too long...
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I'll do the TSC for skills boots.
Sorta sick of all the snap crackalackin you're making me do.
Also, work has resumed after a few days of abstinence.
 
Mar 21, 2010 at 1:09 AM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
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Lace said:
I'll do the TSC for skills boots.
Sorta sick of all the snap crackalackin you're making me do.
Also, work has resumed after a few days of abstinence.

If ya want... :/
I'd rather do the TSC myself for the sake of documentation and synergy, though.
Email?
 
Mar 23, 2010 at 11:14 AM
andwhyisit Online
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DragonBoots said:
Hmm...
Would be tricky to impliment, but I think this is doable.
Any particulars you think would a good idea in terms of items to create?
[WALLOTEXT]
Not sure. Though I think you need to decide upon the skills you want to use and build it around that. 40-70% of items for each skill set can be single skill items and the rest can be multi-skill items.

Compounds or elements (or whatever the building blocks of your items are called) should come last. Basically you should create a compound/element/whatever list that encompasses your skill set, not your items. Basically the "compounds/elements/whatevers" that you use to make an item and the quantities used don't need to exactly mimic real life (otherwise you would go crazy), this is a video game after all. Though I would recommend that you make the "compounds/elements/whatevers" independent from the item menu since you may need quantities of up to 20, 30, or even 99 per "compound/element/whatever".

So basically map out your skills, create both items and "compounds/elements/whatevers" from the skills you have chosen, and then link your item list to your "compound/element/whatever" list in that order.

Just never base your "compound/element/whatever" list on your item list 'kay (or vice versa for that matter).

Also for a possible item storage system (if you are interested) you could use four flags per item as bits to form a binary number that represent a decimal value from 0 to 15. So 0 means that the item isn't in storage, 1-10 is the quantity (max is 10), and 11-15 just defaults to 10.

To store compound/element/whatever quantities you may also need to use 5 (max quantity of 30), 6 (max quantity of 50) or 7 (max quantity of 99) flags per compound/element/whatever in a similar fashion as mentioned in the above paragraph.

I'm going too fast aren't I? Sorry I am just excited about the idea of an alchemy system being incorporated into a CS mod.
[/WALLOTEXT]
 
Mar 23, 2010 at 6:17 PM
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andwhyisit said:
[WALLOTEXT]
Not sure. Though I think you need to decide upon the skills you want to use and build it around that. 40-70% of items for each skill set can be single skill items and the rest can be multi-skill items.

Compounds or elements (or whatever the building blocks of your items are called) should come last. Basically you should create a compound/element/whatever list that encompasses your skill set, not your items. Basically the "compounds/elements/whatevers" that you use to make an item and the quantities used don't need to exactly mimic real life (otherwise you would go crazy), this is a video game after all. Though I would recommend that you make the "compounds/elements/whatevers" independent from the item menu since you may need quantities of up to 20, 30, or even 99 per "compound/element/whatever".

So basically map out your skills, create both items and "compounds/elements/whatevers" from the skills you have chosen, and then link your item list to your "compound/element/whatever" list in that order.

Just never base your "compound/element/whatever" list on your item list 'kay (or vice versa for that matter).

Also for a possible item storage system (if you are interested) you could use four flags per item as bits to form a binary number that represent a decimal value from 0 to 15. So 0 means that the item isn't in storage, 1-10 is the quantity (max is 10), and 11-15 just defaults to 10.

To store compound/element/whatever quantities you may also need to use 5 (max quantity of 30), 6 (max quantity of 50) or 7 (max quantity of 99) flags per compound/element/whatever in a similar fashion as mentioned in the above paragraph.

I'm going too fast aren't I? Sorry I am just excited about the idea of an alchemy system being incorporated into a CS mod.
[/WALLOTEXT]

Hmmm...
This will take some doing indeed.
Though industrial quantaties being made may not be the most viable option seeing as it'd kinda break the game if you could have 99 healing tonics or napalms.
That, and a feasable limit for the character to reasonably carry safely should also be considered (I mean... 99 napalms just screams "one misstep and I'm a human fireball"...).
Generally, I think it'd be safe enough to say "1 quantity" of the material is enough for 1 item; though you can carry a few of each material.
That said, it wouldn't be alchemy without some form of mixing, so...

[spoilers]
Materials list

- Lard
- Flint
- Thistle Down
- Universal Solvent

Combinations (All are assumed to require a Universal Solvent)

Lard First:

- Lard = Lesser Healing Tonic
- Lard + Thistle Down = Healing Tonic
- Lard + Thistle Down + Flint = Greater Healing Tonic
- Lard + Flint = Charred Grease (Useless)
- Lard + Flint + Thistle Down = Rebreather Shell

Flint First:

- Flint = Napalm
- Flint + Lard = Balefire
- Flint + Lard + Thistle Down = Dragon's Breath
- Flint + Thistle Down = Charred Fluff (Useless)
- Flint + Thistle Down + Lard = Shadow Ally

Thistle Down First:
- Thistle Down = Nimbus
- Thistle Down + Flint = Lifter
- Thistle Down + Flint + Lard = Flare
- Thistle Down + Lard = Greasy Fluff (Useless)
- Thistle Down + Lard + Flint = Revealer

[/spoilers]

As you can tell, the order will be important.
To K.I.S.S. I think I'll make it so attempting to make another of a potion/item you already have result in a Fizzle.
 
Apr 12, 2010 at 12:49 AM
andwhyisit Online
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Basing the results on order is kinda lazy. No offense.
 
Apr 12, 2010 at 3:16 AM
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andwhyisit said:
Basing the results on order is kinda lazy. No offense.
Eh, I'd rather not have to script combinations for 50+ materials.
I dunno.
Basically balancing n^(n-1) combinations of materials is the part that bothers me, as I hate tracing binary trees.
I suppose I could make each recipe require 2 materials, and have over 50 bajillion materials.
I dunno.
That was a scrapbook idea anyways.

However!
Suppose I made there a pool of, say, 15 material items.
Taking any two results in a unique combination that can't be recreated otherwise.
Basically it'd be 3 different grades of elemental items (Earth, Air, Fire, Water), and 3 other base materials.

Or, with a lot of effort, I could make an alchemy parody to the one in Odin Sphere (but skipping the materials grade (lol phozons (though... achemy making weapon energy? Nah, CS is not Odin Sphere)) where, by having the recipe, you enable making the item.
Course to streamline it down so it's not Y/N webs of death I'm limited to 6 repcipes at a time (I suppose I could have more, but the player could only 'carry' 6 at a time because I'd use the teleporter menu).
Heh, a Pokémon aspect comes in at that point because of the whole "You can't learn more than 4 moves" thing.
I'm partial to the second idea because it's basically setting a flag for a recipe get, then 2 checks to see if you have the materials when you make it.

Thoughts?
DoubleThink said:
Make the alchemy a two-step process?

I'd considered that, but I want to keep it fairly simple.

Anyways...

Neo-alchemy materials list (for second idea) -

- Earth Element -
* White Stone
** Black Sand
*** Prismstone

- Water Element -
* Rain Water
** Dew
*** Hoarfrost

- Fire Element -
* Charcoal
** Flint
*** Sundrop

- Air Element -
* Bottled Air
** Kite Down
*** Danderspore

- Base Materials -
* Common Material
** Distilled Material
*** Perfect Material

Essentially this means, assuming that it requires 2 materials and a base material of the same rank (1, 2 or 3) to make an alchemy item.
Thus we can work out, class, how many 2-element combinations there are:

Air Fire Water Earth
Air X 1 2 3
Fire X X 4 5
Water X X X 6
Earth X X X X

Giving us 18 combinations over the 3 ranks.

Rank 1 materials are plentiful and readilly gotten.
Rank 2 materials aren't rare, but aren't exactly common and require a bit of thought to get.
Rank 3 materials are only found in the furthest corners of the world.

Thing is with this that multiples are... Not impossible, but really, really hard to make work (as consuming 1 "quantity" would have to check your current "quantity" and clear the right flag).
Multiples of created items may be a different matter, but to a reasonable limit (9...?).
Again, a check for your current before incrementing.

But! I may end up using that currency system I saw on here a while back, stripped down a bit and reworked, so every item can have multiples with a fair degree of ease.

Yeah...
Then the teleport interface only has to check to see if you have the items, then run the decrement script for each.
Genius!

The real question is: Will all this fit into Head.tsc and ArmsItem.tsc and their combined character limits?

Alchemy proposal v2: Y/Y?

(Also, conveniently, 6 recpies per rank fits nicely into the 6 teleporter menu slots, and since the base material will be the initiator for the alchemy, you can have all the recipes at once, theorhetically.)
 
Apr 12, 2010 at 6:23 AM
andwhyisit Online
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Yeah, I like this idea much better.
 
Apr 12, 2010 at 3:35 PM
graters gonna grate
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If you want, I could write a program for you that writes the necessary script elements, so you don't have to do a shitload of copypasta/edit. PM me with more details (i.e. which items are kept track of as inventory items, as flags, and/or as teleporter slots and such) if you are interested.

And I don't think it'll overflow the max script size, provided you keep the text to a minimum. Remember the 6 colored stones puzzle in TWoR? The script for that was pretty damn huge, and it had no problems. Plus isn't there a fairly simple hack to increase max script size (but don't make it TOO huge or it'll rape the computer's RAM)?
 
Apr 12, 2010 at 8:53 PM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
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andwhyisit said:
Yeah, I like this idea much better.
Like you opinion matters. :o
(JK)
Glad you like the idea...
I may actually consider making alchemy spawn weapon energy as per Odin Sphere.
But that's only because, if you check the page, weapons can require upwards of 1000 energy to level up at the higher levels, so a couple dozen EXP won't matter.
Thoughts?
Wedge of Cheese said:
If you want, I could write a program for you that writes the necessary script elements, so you don't have to do a shitload of copypasta/edit. PM me with more details (i.e. which items are kept track of as inventory items, as flags, and/or as teleporter slots and such) if you are interested.
Hmmm...
It would be a handy program indeed...
But I think your efforts would be better spent on the music portion for now.
I think I'll just do what I always do with large scripts - Work it out in Excel. :o
Sides, Lace has a few more hacks to finish before I can start.
Rather, I could start now, but I couldn't test.
I'll start the alchemy system, though, because that will be using only base-engine commands.
Wedge of Cheese said:
And I don't think it'll overflow the max script size, provided you keep the text to a minimum. Remember the 6 colored stones puzzle in TWoR? The script for that was pretty damn huge, and it had no problems. Plus isn't there a fairly simple hack to increase max script size (but don't make it TOO huge or it'll rape the computer's RAM)?
I'll look into that, as increasing some of the caps on the game would be a huge help.
And I'll keep in mind said RAM-rape... I only have 192 Mb. If It runs on mine, it'll run on anything.

Anyways, all that said, this is turning into what I was hoping it would - A community project. :3
Granted it's not *about* the forums, but it's made by, in essence.
 
Apr 12, 2010 at 9:06 PM
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Apr 13, 2010 at 12:29 AM
Been here way too long...
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RAM hack's no big deal. I multiplied the buffer by 16 on my mod and no negative affects, and my computer is 5 years old at the least.

I feel like a jerk whenever you remind me about hacks.




Also, whatever happened to the shield/spear idea?
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 1:43 AM
graters gonna grate
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Lace said:
my computer is 5 years old at the least.

You say that like it's a lot >_>
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 2:04 AM
Been here way too long...
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I built it in fourth grade. It's old.
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 2:56 AM
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I'm trying in vain to locate in which post the idea of using the teleport menu first came up...

Anyway. Is there a limit on the number of teleport icons the game can grab from the relevant bmp? Or can you expand it arbitrarily long and it will happily continue to grab more and more? If so, each individual recipe could have its own icon. This would require repopulating the teleport menu every time you want to make alchemy, but that shouldn't be too hard, should it?
 
Apr 13, 2010 at 6:14 PM
Cold Agony of Resolute Vacuum
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Noxid said:
shh you'll jinx it :0
Well, thing previous attempts lacked is organization.
For the sake of not jynxing it, this is my project, but there's a lot of community help. :)

Lace said:
RAM hack's no big deal. I multiplied the buffer by 16 on my mod and no negative affects, and my computer is 5 years old at the least.

I feel like a jerk whenever you remind me about hacks.

Also, whatever happened to the shield/spear idea?
Mine's older. :p

You are a jerk. <3

Dunno. If you're refering to the weapons, that's your court. :p
Wedge of Cheese said:
You say that like it's a lot >_>
Mine's almost as old as I am.

Celtic Minstrel said:
I'm trying in vain to locate in which post the idea of using the teleport menu first came up...

Anyway. Is there a limit on the number of teleport icons the game can grab from the relevant bmp? Or can you expand it arbitrarily long and it will happily continue to grab more and more? If so, each individual recipe could have its own icon. This would require repopulating the teleport menu every time you want to make alchemy, but that shouldn't be too hard, should it?
Idea wasn't posted before.
I'd been chewing it over before deciding to post it.

And yes. The savegame can only hold up to 6 slots. Anything more breaks it.

Here's the responsible script chunks:

Code:
#1000
<KEY<MSG<TUR[NULL OPTION]<WAI9999<END
#1001
<KEY<FLJ0029:1007<FLJ0030:1013<FLJ0031:1019<FLJ0032:1025<FLJ0033:1031<FLJ0034:1037<FLJ0035:1043<FLJ0036:1049<MSG<TUROption 1<WAI9999<END
#1002
<KEY<FLJ0029:1008<FLJ0030:1014<FLJ0031:1020<FLJ0032:1026<FLJ0033:1032<FLJ0034:1038<FLJ0035:1044<FLJ0036:1050<MSG<TUROption 2<WAI9999<END
#1003
<KEY<FLJ0029:1009<FLJ0030:1015<FLJ0031:1021<FLJ0032:1027<FLJ0033:1033<FLJ0034:1039<FLJ0035:1045<FLJ0036:1051<MSG<TUROption 3<WAI9999<END
#1004
<KEY<FLJ0029:1010<FLJ0030:1016<FLJ0031:1022<FLJ0032:1028<FLJ0033:1034<FLJ0034:1040<FLJ0035:1046<FLJ0036:1052<MSG<TUROption 4<WAI9999<END
#1005
<KEY<FLJ0029:1011<FLJ0030:1017<FLJ0031:1023<FLJ0032:1029<FLJ0033:1035<FLJ0034:1041<FLJ0035:1047<FLJ0036:1053<MSG<TUROption 5<WAI9999<END
#1006
<KEY<FLJ0029:1012<FLJ0030:1018<FLJ0031:1024<FLJ0032:1030<FLJ0033:1036<FLJ0034:1042<FLJ0035:1048<FLJ0036:1054<MSG<TUROption 6<WAI9999<END

//Alchemy 1 - Flag 29

#1007
<MSG<TURLesser Healing Tonic<WAI9999<END
#1008
<MSG<TURLesser Bottled Coin<WAI9999<END
#1009
<MSG<TUREssence Chip<WAI9999<END
#1010
<MSG<TURRallying Cry<WAI9999<END
#1011
<MSG<TURStorm Weirds<WAI9999<END
#1012
<MSG<TUR[Resume Here]<WAI9999<END

//Alchemy 2 - Flag 30

#1013
<MSG<TURGreater Healing Tonic<WAI9999<END
#1014
<MSG<TURGreater Bottled Coin<WAI9999<END
#1015
<MSG<TUREssence Fragment<WAI9999<END
#1016
<MSG<TURSmokescreen<WAI9999<END
#1017
<MSG<TURShadow Ally<WAI9999<END
#1018
<MSG<TURProdigy Parasite<WAI9999<END

//Alchemy 3 - Flag 31

#1019
<MSG<TURBodyforger<WAI9999<END
#1020
<MSG<TURKings' Ransom<WAI9999<END
#1021
<MSG<TUREssence Shard<WAI9999<END
#1022
<MSG<TURPurifier<WAI9999<END
#1023
<MSG<TURPlethora of Gifts<WAI9999<END
#1024
<MSG<TURParasite Powerup<WAI9999<END

//Spells - Flag 32

#0025
<MSG<TURBrimstone Barrage<WAI9999<END
#0026
<MSG<TURThunderclap Torrent<WAI9999<END
#0027
<MSG<TURCirrius Carriage<WAI9999<END
#0028
<MSG<TURAdamant Altos<WAI9999<END
#0029
<MSG<TURNimble Nimbus<WAI9999<END
#0030
<MSG<TURBurning Beacon<WAI9999<END

//Basic Shop - Flag 33
//Advanced Shop - Flag 34
//Unused - Flag 35
//Unused - Flag 36

Not quite finished yet, and I'm not showing the one from Head.tsc (partly because it's massive).
Basically I'm gonna be setting 1 flag to change the menu from one set to another.

:3
 
Apr 14, 2010 at 1:34 AM
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I was referring to the story with the armor maker, the two customers, and the smartass.
The basis, you said.
 
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