Agora's Legends ~ Minnasan no Monogatari

Ooh, I could make a training room thing with that!

Ok, I got an idea for server mode things.

Critter Maul: You and a bunch of other players have to fight an onslaught of all types of critters (green, floaty green, power critter, purple) that never ends.

Nemesis: One player has a nemmy. Everyone else has a polar star. Polar star people try to kill the 'nemesis'.

 

See? All anyone wants to make is their own mods and things. That's okay, that's what Agora's Legends is supposed to be used for... My point still stands about releasing the source code, though.

It's not about ego. I know full well the limitations of my ability. I originally could not program proper collision code because I suck so hard. So I specificly made gravity and collisions scripted so anyone else could mess with it, and you still say it is not something you could fix with scripting alone?

The only things I had not intended to be scripted were the game state machine, drawing, and network code... If you really want to mess with those, you're totally free to, but I'd like to at least know I can trust you first. You seem neither willing to go to my message board to post related ideas, nor meet with me in private, so I am left without means. The more people are around, the more I tend to fade away.

As I previously stated, my decisions are merely defensive. That's all there is to it. I am a very defensive person, as I've grown up learning that the only thing I can do is run away. If I do anything other than run away and hide, people misunderstand me and go against me. Just as you do now.

If you want specific examples, I had helped Shuffle learn to program to a large extent. Shuffle made the beginnings of Soviet Russia Blast 2, but I had to fix every other thing because of the way he made it. (and lacking several "if" statements, leading to death pits being broken even outside of the game mode) He then went off to make Shufflarb2, which everyone seems to agree is soooo much better than my stuff ... even though it is directly based off mine.

Or more relevant to the present, nmn showed up in the #Doukutsu channel recently-ish, I was happy to give him the hookup to work with me, he tried to totally rewrite the network code and the sound system code to use different libraries in a very hack-ish way (and when put simply, failed on both counts, though I managed to save the sound system with a little work and surely the network code would take only a larger bit more) then disappeared.

...

On the other hand, the more you guys make me out to be the badguy in all this, the more tempted I am to simply dump the source code here and say "You know what? Fuck it, here's your source code, I'm out." ... of course, the project would probably go poof at that point, ... but I do still want to work on it... Bah. I really don't want to do that.

I need not mention a deleted thread as another form of being unwilling to help me, as I worded it all wrong... but it was only a thread after all.

I suppose there is little point in explaining how I feel (as a whole) in detail, so I will only say that I had a dream in which I was being bombed by one of my best friends because I was not a citizen of canada. It stings a bit, to be attacked by "friends".

 

If you really want to mess with those, you're totally free to, but I'd like to at least know I can trust you first.

That's hard enough.

... of course, the project would probably go poof at that point, ...

Meaning you think we couldn't finish it?

 

It's not about ego. I know full well the limitations of my ability. I originally could not program proper collision code because I suck so hard. So I specificly made gravity and collisions scripted so anyone else could mess with it, and you still say it is not something you could fix with scripting alone?

Sorry about that, I guess I presumed that without thinking - because having stuff like that in the engine itself, seems to me like the usual thing to do. But hey, making part of the physics scriptable isn't such a bad idea either.

The only things I had not intended to be scripted were the game state machine, drawing, and network code... If you really want to mess with those, you're totally free to, but I'd like to at least know I can trust you first. You seem neither willing to go to my message board to post related ideas, nor meet with me in private, so I am left without means. The more people are around, the more I tend to fade away.

I've been rather busy lately, but it had been interesting to at least look at what you've done, maybe I can help you with something. As for the issue of trust, I don't really know what to do - sure, I can join your forum (can you clarify "meeting in private" ?).

My goal is not to steal your work, but to learn something from helping you. I like programming and I like Cave Story; I think it would be interesting to work on a project that revolves around it, but how can I know if I have something to contribute when I don't know any details?

As I previously stated, my decisions are merely defensive. That's all there is to it. I am a very defensive person, as I've grown up learning that the only thing I can do is run away. If I do anything other than run away and hide, people misunderstand me and go against me. Just as you do now.

... I can't relate to this.

If you want specific examples, I had helped Shuffle learn to program to a large extent. Shuffle made the beginnings of Soviet Russia Blast 2, but I had to fix every other thing because of the way he made it. (and lacking several "if" statements, leading to death pits being broken even outside of the game mode) He then went off to make Shufflarb2, which everyone seems to agree is soooo much better than my stuff ... even though it is directly based off mine.

I don't know who you're talking about, but it seems like you've helped some kind of immature kiddie.

Or more relevant to the present, nmn showed up in the #Doukutsu channel recently-ish, I was happy to give him the hookup to work with me, he tried to totally rewrite the network code and the sound system code to use different libraries in a very hack-ish way (and when put simply, failed on both counts, though I managed to save the sound system with a little work and surely the network code would take only a larger bit more) then disappeared.

Wow.. I give you my condolences, I didn't think he was that kind of guy.

 

Meaning you think we couldn't finish it?

This is how projects get orphaned, without a project leader and/or a clear goal, it's hard to finish it.

 

Sorry about that, I guess I presumed that without thinking - because having stuff like that in the engine itself, seems to me like the usual thing to do. But hey, making part of the physics scriptable isn't such a bad idea either.

Yeah, it was originally supposed to be hardcoded, but I sucked at it and gave up.

... I can't relate to this.

That's probably a good thing. I've just been hurt a lot, all my life, so I've grown used to feeling helpless to do anything else.

Wow.. I give you my condolences, I didn't think he was that kind of guy.

I doubt it was on purpose, I kind of vanished for a while too, for unrelated reasons. ... But still, I had to tell them explicitly that some sound effects (the text-typing sound specificly) only play on one channel, while others seem to play on multiple channels for him to re-add that in at all, and they left the ORG-playing code with a hardcoded always-use-full-volume and stuff like that ... I suppose that sort of result is to be expected from anyone who doesn't know the engine very well, but it felt like he didn't even test it (or care to), if he could compile it at all...

Can we be done with this drama now? ... I'm getting a little sick (from/of) it.

 

A theory I have:

This is probably far-fetch'd as far as a simplistic game such as Cave Story goes, but I think it's possibly there's an element of gravity in the game. This would help explain how the jumping mechanic is how it is, in the least - The game can also have various enemies igore the gravity somewhat, such as Ma pigneon when jumping upward, etc. Even so, it could also explain gaudi flight patterns, bat flight patterns, the doctor's bobbing when levitating, etc.

Yes, I'm a dork, and I'm probably way off, what with my lack of programming knowledge, and whatnot. Buuuuuut, I could be right.

 

It... doesn't work for me. '_'

I dunno why. I double click "agora.exe" and a window pops up for a split second and then disappears.

 

There seems to be not one person who doesn't encounter that. Silly Lyger...

I really should release a new version sometime soon, heh...
ZT, the first time I programmed it, I couldn't quite get the jumping to feel right because I was trying to do it SRB2-style, cutting off the jump height when you reach a certain point... When it is actually done by giving a tiny tiny tiny boost every single frame you hold the button so long as you are going upwards.

 

Oh. Shoulda read the topic beyond half the first page, I guess.

At least I know it's not that annoying virus that's been plaguing my computer.

 

1. This is a clone of Pixel's engine.
2. Pixel wants his game closed-source.
3. If you have ANY respect for pixel then drop the "open-source Agora" debate right now.

 

1. This is a clone of Pixel's engine.
2. Pixel wants his game closed-source.
3. If you have ANY respect for pixel then drop the "open-source Agora" debate right now.

It's more like this:

1. A mod/clone is not something you made entire from yourself.
2. Pixel doesn't want people to mod/clone Doukutsu.
3. Therefore if you have ANY respect for pixel then drop the whole project and delete every mod.

 

It's more like this:

1. A mod/clone is not something you made entire from yourself.
2. Pixel doesn't want people to mod/clone Doukutsu.
3. Therefore if you have ANY respect for pixel then drop the whole project and delete every mod.

AND WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU DOING RIGHT NOW, SP?

Yes, I am the king of large FAIL images.

 

1. This is a clone of Pixel's engine.
2. Pixel wants his game closed-source.
3. If you have ANY respect for pixel then drop the "open-source Agora" debate right now.

A clone does not need to be closed-source just because the thing it's a clone of is closed-source.

 

A clone does not need to be closed-source just because the thing it's a clone of is closed-source.

4. What the hell is the point of open-source when everything can be modded without even touching the exe.
5. Do you really want JTE to quit this project?
6. Do I have to remind you of the last time Pixel's source code ended up in the wrong hands. (Hint: Variant)
7. Source code can handed out to the people who are doing the porting, such as what Pixel did.
8. It is ultimately the creator's decision on what he does with his project.
9. There are many free programs/games out there that are not open source yet nobody complains about them.
10. CAVE STORY IS NOT OPEN SOURCE YET NOBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT IT EITHER!

Drop it, NOW!

It's more like this:

1. A mod/clone is not something you made entire from yourself.
2. Pixel doesn't want people to mod/clone Doukutsu.
3. Therefore if you have ANY respect for pixel then drop the whole project and delete every mod.

As far as I am aware:
11. Pixel was completely fine with mods.
12. Pixel made it clear that he did not want his game open source.

Do you really want to step over that line?

Besides, without mods who would maintain the forums. lol

Yes, I am the king of large FAIL images.

Kageryushin is the king of large FAIL images at the moment actually.

 

A Cave Story clone is not Cave Story, therefore it is not subject to those rules. It may look and feel and sound like Cave Story, but it still is not Cave Story. Therefore, it's possible for it to be open source, if the developer so desires (which he apparently does not...).

 

Stay on Topic..! *starwars voice*

I'm looking forward to a day where we can play Cave Story cooperative from start to finish.
I'd imagine it should be up to a 4 player game. Quote, Curly, King, and ... Toroko should be the chooseable players lol [remember the statue room?]
That sure would be an interesting group of fighters, not to mention incredibly awesome in my book.

I'm very impressed with what already has been created... If there are some ideas I can help come up with, I'm all mimiga ears.

Oh and how hard will it be to port over a mod? I remember reading something about this but can't remember.

 

Stay on Topic..! *starwars voice*

I'm looking forward to a day where we can play Cave Story cooperative from start to finish.
I'd imagine it should be up to a 4 player game. Quote, Curly, King, and ... Toroko should be the chooseable players lol [remember the statue room?]
That sure would be an interesting group of fighters, not to mention incredibly awesome in my book.

I'm very impressed with what already has been created... If there are some ideas I can help come up with, I'm all mimiga ears.

Oh and how hard will it be to port over a mod? I remember reading something about this but can't remember.

This will answer your question:

I had decided that I don't really like the VS mod much as it is and it needs to be redone some. It just lacks the feeling of Pixel's work at this point, and even if I were satisfied with it, it would probably show off so many new features of the engine that it just doesn't fit in with the "normal" Cave Story content well anymore.

If anyone really wants it, I will gladly put it up as a seperate download for this and/or future releases. I can also easily convert any mod to use the engine, though not enough of the objects are complete for such conversions to be too successful... For example, I have already converted the boss rush mod, but lack weapon exp, boss AI for anything beyond the first Balrog, and even the rect data for nearly every major boss.

http://jte.kidradd.org/mb/index.php?topic=17.msg127

 

A Cave Story clone is not Cave Story, therefore it is not subject to those rules. It may look and feel and sound like Cave Story, but it still is not Cave Story. Therefore, it's possible for it to be open source, if the developer so desires (which he apparently does not...).

But most games that have open source versions are dated. If you created an open source clone for a current game you would be sued instantly by the company. So no, it does not make a difference whether it is a clone or not.

What if you changed just one thing in cave story and claimed you made it? By your logic this seems to be legal. One company can sue another over over their logo looking the same. SP can flame someone over their sprites looking like his. Where the hell is the logic behind your argument?

 

What if you changed just one thing in cave story and claimed you made it? By your logic this seems to be legal.

Every mod and clone is illegal, if you haven't got the permission from the author.

It's all about permission, credit and freedome