Forum Elitism

Hayden, has anyone ever informed you that there is value in brevity?

Anyways let's see if I can't address some of the points in your post.

I think the best example of a user who borders on invincibility from criticism would be Noxid. Please note that I have a great respect for Noxid. He's very smart, has the ability to be very mature, has the ability to make very constructive posts, has contributed immensely to the modding community, has some very good artistic talent, and amuses me to no end with his ability to quickly think of a witty metaphor to prove his point. Nonetheless, he regularly makes posts that are of very little value. He himself even admitted the other day that he blanket posts a lot. I'm pretty sure that at least 9/10 of the posts he made over the last 2 years in the modding showcase forum didn't contribute anything valuable to the discussion. And yet nobody seems to have called him out on it because he manages to stay afloat by sometimes making them witty or calling out a new user for saying something stupid in so doing. Furthermore, when he used his exclusive power to start a new thread in the S.P.O.T. (something that was disabled among regular users for a reason), the thread became one of the most popular threads during its period. Not only was the thread itself pretty much spam, but it also encouraged other users to spam. The closest anyone even came to criticizing him for that move was Fab who jokingly suggested he should ban himself for spamming. And yet, six months earlier, a new user at the time with a poor reputation made a thread of a similar nature that was of hardly any less value than Noxid's, and was basically treated like spam. Noxid himself even said that if there was going to be another thread like that, then there would be consequences.

Well no shit Noxid is pretty much invincible from criticism. These forums are an oligarchy essentially, so being a mod sort of puts you in "God mode". And that probably won't change unless a mod/admin does something bad enough that Andy decides to pick a new mod, and picking good new mods isn't easy. But putting that aside...

Has noxid even made 10 posts in the modding section of the forums in the past 2 years? Or at the very least could you grab me 9 of those 10 that weren't good because my memory is poor and I feel that's a bold statement without proof.

And yes spamming is one of the privileges given to the "elite", older members, primarily because spam doesn't make up over half of their posts. When a new member comes in and spams, it's seen in a much worse light because they don't have a number of "quality" posts to offset their image, so they're seen as a spammer and nothing but. This is the primary distinction between someone like Noxid making such a thread and a newbie making a thread, because we have faith in Noxid that the thread won't go on forever whereas with a newbie, for all we know they're here just to spam.

I'm not replying to the rest of your post (yet) because it's just so massive and I'm going to need a few minutes to actually read this.

 

Well no shit Noxid is pretty much invincible from criticism. These forums are an oligarchy essentially, so being a mod sort of puts you in "God mode".

Do you not see that this is exactly the problem this thread was trying to point out?

 

and yet you still typed an entire college essay about it

I had nothing better to do.

Well no shit Noxid is pretty much invincible from criticism. These forums are an oligarchy essentially, so being a mod sort of puts you in "God mode". And that probably won't change unless a mod/admin does something bad enough that Andy decides to pick a new mod, and picking good new mods isn't easy. But putting that aside...

Has noxid even made 10 posts in the modding section of the forums in the past 2 years? Or at the very least could you grab me 9 of those 10 that weren't good because my memory is poor and I feel that's a bold statement without proof.

And yes spamming is one of the privileges given to the "elite", older members, primarily because spam doesn't make up over half of their posts. When a new member comes in and spams, it's seen in a much worse light because they don't have a number of "quality" posts to offset their image, so they're seen as a spammer and nothing but. This is the primary distinction between someone like Noxid making such a thread and a newbie making a thread, because we have faith in Noxid that the thread won't go on forever whereas with a newbie, for all we know they're here just to spam.

Basically all I got out of that post is that moderators and established users are above the rules, and you're basically admitting that they deserve special treatment due to their seniority. Essentially you're saying that the rules don't apply to Noxid. That's like saying police officers are above the law.

If two people commit a crime, and one of them has a criminal history and the other doesn't, they're going to face the same consequences. After they've both paid their dues, people might be more hopeful for the future of one than the other, but that shouldn't make the one with less of a criminal history exempt from the consequences of their actions. Your statement shamelessly admitting the subjectively enforced rules was pretty much the kind of response I was expecting from the moment this discussion started. Something that I feel completely defies logic but there's no point in trying to convince you against since it's such a fundamental disagreement that there's really no point in trying to change each other's mind. So... I guess I'll just agree to disagree with you on that.

I never started a discussion like this myself because, like I said in the first reply to this thread, I felt in the end it would change nothing. But at the same time I knew that tensions would boil over sooner or later and that this discussion would have to happen, even if the only thing it would ever accomplish would be having exchanged our opinions about how a forum should operate. So there. You believe certain users are above the rules and I don't. Fin.

Also, as you requested, here are nine posts Noxid has made in the modding showcase forum within the past two years that were of very little value:
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/183922/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/179477/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/175836/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/167516/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/184510/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/178745/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/171657/ (the irony)
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/164167/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/168225/

 

No, I'm going to start a discussion (which you seem to not have noticed, or perhaps more likely you simply don't care about) to point out the problem and to try and come to an agreement between the two sides. I've already done that in making this thread because it's the only sane way of trying to deal with the problem. If making these threads was pointless as you seem to think it is, I'd think that this subforum wouldn't be open.

 

Do you not see that this is exactly the problem this thread was trying to point out?

This isn't a problem that's ever going to go away though. Mods have unchecked power. You can't really make the forums into a democracy or anything with this kind of a system.

The best you could hope to do is to complain to Andy and hope to have some change. But he's like the king of the kings, so if he doesn't care to do anything, then you're fucked. The best we can hope for with mods is that they don't abuse their power and that they are just and as unbiased as they can be.

And it's not as bad as it once was, like when SP would delete a whole thread just to cover Kage's ass when Kage did something stupid.

Also, as you requested, here are nine posts Noxid has made in the modding showcase forum within the past two years that were of very little value:
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/183922/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/179477/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/175836/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/167516/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/184510/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/178745/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/171657/ (the irony)
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/164167/
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/168225/

All those posts are great, what are you talking about? I enjoyed every single one of those posts.

 

Yeah it's a bullshit problem that exists in the real world as well. There is no justice in this world. I remember I got banned due to a private issue (I called GIR a fag on private messages). Damn, I almost forgot about that story lol. Fuck me that was retarded gir you fag

 

Yeah it's a bullshit problem that exists in the real world as well. There is no justice in this world. I remember I got banned due to a private issue (I called GIR a fag on private messages). Damn, I almost forgot about that story lol. Fuck me that was retarded gir you fag

Wasn't it like a one week ban?

Also I think the universal rule among all forums has always been "don't piss off the mods".

 

we are all equal in this world. mods aren't higher than any other human being. it's in the constitution. no homo.

 

I think the best example of a user who borders on invincibility from criticism would be Noxid.

Have you tried criticizing him, or were you afraid of the secret forum police? Were you waiting for the problem to go away or correct itself? If you don't like what he's doing, say so, and ignore everyone who's going to call you a heretic for speaking ill of our God Emperor. Jesus, man, the circlejerk's not going to break itself up.

 

Nonetheless, he regularly makes posts that are of very little value. He himself even admitted the other day that he blanket posts a lot. I'm pretty sure that at least 9/10 of the posts he made over the last 2 years in the modding showcase forum didn't contribute anything valuable to the discussion. And yet nobody seems to have called him out on it because he manages to stay afloat by sometimes making them witty or calling out a new user for saying something stupid in so doing.

All those posts are great, what are you talking about? I enjoyed every single one of those posts.

Those may be amusing to read, but it doesn't change the fact that they don't add anything meaningful to the discussion at all. Whether or not you enjoyed them shouldn't stop you from at the very least acknowledging the fact that it's exactly what Hayden's talking about when it comes to the problem of Noxid not getting called out on those posts, no matter how witty and clever they are.

 

Those may be amusing to read, but it doesn't change the fact that they don't add anything meaningful to the discussion at all. Whether or not you enjoyed them shouldn't stop you from at the very least acknowledging the fact that it's exactly what Hayden's talking about when it comes to the problem of Noxid not getting called out on those posts, no matter how witty and clever they are.

Well then call him out? And like maybe when he actually posts the posts instead of waiting for months on end to post a backlog of "all the things noxid has ever done wrong, compiled for your convenience".

 

You did ask for them

 

Calling out won't work.

Beat his ass man.

He's 160lbs tops.

 

Calling out won't work.

Beat his ass man.

He's 160lbs tops.

closer to 140

 

Lol m8 you have to be kidding me.

I'll do it for you man just tell me.

 

Forums die slowly. Let them die slowly...

 

Have you tried criticizing him, or were you afraid of the secret forum police? Were you waiting for the problem to go away or correct itself? If you don't like what he's doing, say so, and ignore everyone who's going to call you a heretic for speaking ill of our God Emperor. Jesus, man, the circlejerk's not going to break itself up.

Believe me, I have. The conversation continued over PM, where I really gave him a rant about decisions of his as a moderator that I disagreed with.

Well then call him out? And like maybe when he actually posts the posts instead of waiting for months on end to post a backlog of "all the things noxid has ever done wrong, compiled for your convenience".

I don't call users out for blanket posting or spamming because that's the moderators' job. Oh wait... Nonetheless, I didn't call Noxid out for those individual offenses because putting little content into your posts isn't something that I as a regular user want to call other users out on. The only times that I really intervene or call a user out is if I feel a user is being attacked and I think it unlikely that anyone else will come to their defense. I only pointed out Noxid's tendency to spam in order to prove a point.

 

I was actually legitimately going to apologize to you a while ago hayden but i really had no clue how to say it other than "I was an immature asshat back then and yeah i'm sorry for that" and you seem like the type of guy who would want a college thesis on "why the fuck i'm sorry"

but yeah i can understand why you are still mad at me. I'm pretty much posting when i feel like it which happens to be rare-ish nowadays because it's gotten kinda samey recently. I can understand why i seem like some kinda boogyman to you still because i never really went out of my way to make things right with you after about a year of not harassing you anymore

but yeah i was an ass back then, still kinda am, sorry for harassing you back then

 

I don't call users out for blanket posting or spamming because that's the moderators' job. Oh wait... Nonetheless, I didn't call Noxid out for those individual offenses because putting little content into your posts isn't something that I as a regular user want to call other users out on. The only times that I really intervene or call a user out is if I feel a user is being attacked and I think it unlikely that anyone else will come to their defense. I only pointed out Noxid's tendency to spam in order to prove a point.

It's not our job to police the forums 100% of the time everywhere, you have to realize we're only human. Our job is to resolve issues that are brought to our attention. Basically what I'm saying is that report button exists for a reason.

 

Okay we seem to be pillowfighting with noxid now for some reason but really it's not just noxid who's made those types of posts, rather it's the majority of older members and the original issue was that it was a problem. Which is easily solved through the report button. I'm not sure why we need to keep beating on noxid over this