Cave Story Pre-release versions thread

Mar 12, 2024 at 7:07 AM
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Jokes aside it was probably supposed to be that Quote was intimidated, after all he's only fought one of the villains by this point and now all 3 of them are in the same room alone, it would've been a curbstomp.
I assume it was changed because 'cmon the red flowers are right there a single fireball would have done the job
But Quote's that fearless protag that will jump into anything, like Doomguy, Gordon Freeman, Samus Aran, and Master Chief. There's no way a man in a suit, a toaster, and Missouri had him tremble before them.
 
Mar 12, 2024 at 3:18 PM
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But Quote's that fearless protag that will jump into anything, like Doomguy, Gordon Freeman, Samus Aran, and Master Chief. There's no way a man in a suit, a toaster, and Missouri had him tremble before them.
Eh, I didn't completely get that impression especially considering there's an ending where you can just run away and hide in the mountains
But if Quote is actually supposed to be a player self insert then yeah I'd rather not get into that one before even getting the Spur *shot*
 
Mar 12, 2024 at 6:06 PM
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Now I need to see a 3x bossfight, player vs balrog, misery, and the doctor. Doesn't sound THAT hard.
 
Mar 12, 2024 at 8:28 PM
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Is this a new cs mod idea i smell from you? Honestly, it doesn't sound so bad either. (Which Balrog tho, cuz i feel like Balrog 3 would make things a bit unbalanced)
 
Mar 13, 2024 at 6:32 AM
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these versions were only playtesting versions, and internally it has a disclaimer asking not to redistribute (its almost 2 decades later, he doesnt mind right?), so I presume its so that the versions stay as early testing versions that people are more likely to delete later after the game was officially released
I didn't really think too hard about this at first but yeah, this makes it all the more impressive that these guys held on to these time-locked versions. Despite my own aversion to losing stuff, I probably would've deleted them once they 'expired', thinking something like "hey it's unusable now right? so no point in keeping it". So massive props to them for keeping these versions safe despite no real reason to do so on the face of it, and also massive props to you guys on the server for hunting these down. Some real detective work right there!
I wish I could help but idk how to do any of this nerd stuff so I'll just be cheering you on :heart::sue:
 
Mar 13, 2024 at 4:54 PM
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Is this a new cs mod idea i smell from you? Honestly, it doesn't sound so bad either. (Which Balrog tho, cuz i feel like Balrog 3 would make things a bit unbalanced)
Balrog 2 is worse if you ask me, specifically that 2nd phase.

massive props to you guys on the server for hunting these down. Some real detective work right there!
afaik it's mostly just tracking down the breadcrumbs left from pixel and the other people that tried out CS, and checking out the old y2k-era japanese social media sites to see where things went down back during and before the game's release.
...To an extent I do worry that it might get a bit stalker-ish with how far people have to go just to find these things, I couldn't imagine trying to spend this much time to find the betas.

But again, it all sorta comes back to a community that cares quite a bit about the process of creation behind very well put together pieces of media. There are other communities that are similar, like the Doom community, they've got basically ALL the betas from those games, but I think that's in part just due to sheer manpower going into the hunt for that. If we wanted to see the actual pre-reset beta any time soon we'd probably have to redouble our search, stuff like that usually isn't handed out on silver platters :p
 
Mar 13, 2024 at 6:29 PM
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To an extent I do worry that it might get a bit stalker-ish with how far people have to go just to find these things, I couldn't imagine trying to spend this much time to find the betas.
Pixel has been blueballing the community for so long with the beta that we'll take literally anything by this point even if its just 'final cave story but some of the graphics have less anti aliasing'.


If the actual beta doesn't get released for the 20th anniversary this year even after Rockfish and the StarFrog leak then I am officially labeling this cruel and unusual punishment. It just comes across as intentionally torturing the fanbase by this point and I'm not joking.
 
Mar 13, 2024 at 7:29 PM
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It just comes across as intentionally torturing the fanbase by this point and I'm not joking.
I'm gonna come of as nihilistic, but I think another spinoff featuring Cave Story or even a sequel to Cave Story is more likely than a beta release.
 
Mar 13, 2024 at 7:43 PM
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It just comes across as intentionally torturing the fanbase by this point and I'm not joking.
Mirroring Jade's sentiments here, but more importantly, if certain people who have played the beta say it's not worth it, and if Pixel himself says it's not worth it, then maybe it's better to listen to both groups. Other than for TCRF's urges to gut every game file to oblivion and the modding community looking at code to move over to the final release, there's nothing else to show any hype for. No wonder why Pixel closed off the QVGA server.
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 1:53 AM
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if certain people who have played the beta say it's not worth it, and if Pixel himself says it's not worth it, then maybe it's better to listen to both groups.
Let's get real.
The final Cave Story is not good.
After the initial excitement of the story wears off it's just a goddamn slog consisting 90% of backtracking between mindnumbingly mediocre level design, the only genuinely fun part is the last third after the story mostly fucks off (and some of the bosses). I haven't played through it since 2015 (besides netxengine which doesn't count) and I would rather stick my hand into a waffle maker than do so. (And I am the guy who has played through the entirety of Kero Blaster 10+ times)

Meanwhile the beta actually looks FUN. Almost every bit of level design shown actually looks interesting (unlike fuckin' Literal Corridor With Annoying Egg "Puzzle" That Only Serves To Waste Your Time After You Figured It Out The First Playthrough or Wobbly Corridor Of Grass With Annoying Jellyfish Juice and Charcoal "Puzzles" That Only Serve to Waste Your Time After You Figured It Out The First Playthrough) and it appears to be lighter on the story.
Remember how I said only the last third of the final game is fun? This includes Outer Wall and Plantation.
And "coincidentally", which levels were also in the beta ranging from very similar to outright IDENTICAL?

sc020407.png

Same goes for the Waterway, which I can say is atleast completely inoffensive in the final. You could claim these were just the levels that were good enough to keep, but if so then why are the ones that were redesigned 'still' garbage in the final?

The beta looks superior in almost every aspect and that's a fact. The absolute worst case scenario is that it's just as good and unreplayable as the final game.
 
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Mar 14, 2024 at 3:16 AM
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Let's get real.
The final Cave Story is not good.
After the initial excitement of the story wears off it's just a goddamn slog consisting 90% of backtracking between mindnumbingly mediocre level design, the only genuinely fun part is the last third after the story mostly fucks off (and some of the bosses). I haven't played through it since 2015 (besides netxengine which doesn't count) and I would rather stick my hand into a waffle maker than do so. (And I am the guy who has played through the entirety of Kero Blaster 10+ times)
Good is subjective, but we wouldn't be here if it was bad or didn't leave a positive mark on us in some way would we? we're just starved for new content. It's no secret that the first few sections of Cave Story are a bit of a slog on replays but comparing what we know about the final vs the beta, the final is definitely far more polished; as much as I'm interested in the beta I'm glad we got what we got

Meanwhile the beta actually looks FUN. Almost every bit of level design shown actually looks interesting (unlike fuckin' Literal Corridor With Annoying Egg "Puzzle" That Only Serves To Waste Your Time After You Figured It Out The First Playthrough or Wobbly Corridor Of Grass With Annoying Jellyfish Juice and Charcoal "Puzzles" That Only Serve to Waste Your Time After You Figured It Out The First Playthrough) and it appears to be lighter on the story.
Remember how I said only the last third of the final game is fun? This includes Outer Wall and Plantation.
And "coincidentally", which levels were also in the beta ranging from very similar to outright IDENTICAL?

Same goes for the Waterway, which I can say is atleast completely inoffensive in the final. You could claim these were just the levels that were good enough to keep, but if so then why are the ones that were redesigned 'still' garbage in the final?

The beta looks superior in almost every aspect and that's a fact. The absolute worst case scenario is that it's just as good and unreplayable as the final game.
Don't get me wrong I'm very fascinated by it and I've been dedicating years to researching the Cave Story Beta, but these claims are so absurd lol. Yes, the final game has its flaws. But at least we didn't get "long ass corridor to talk to an NPC who forces you to walk to the beginning and back just to progress" (source: a real former nicalis employee who played the beta), confusing mazelike navigation, or being able to easy softlock yourself early in the game due to limited ammo.
1710386141304.png1710385840733.png1710385796881.png1710385821722.png1710385881611.png1710385903472.png1710385929043.png
I like the beta aesthetically and I think some of its ideas are creative, but if the entire game was restarted because Pixel's friend told him it sucks, it probably sucks

If you really want to play the Cave Story Beta, your best bet is Vozaxhi's beta remake, which is the first completed beta remake. It was honestly a breath of fresh air from my experience to play something so similar to Cave Story yet so different, and I do like it a lot. But keep in mind its a mix of authentic recreations and interpretations of what we do know; which are honestly the lowest point of the mod (sand zone made me want to Explode); and Making Shit Up to fill the gaps, for the better in my opinion, honestly, because a lot of the cool new stuff was what made it so special to me.
 
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Mar 14, 2024 at 6:28 AM
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The beta looks superior in almost every aspect and that's a fact. The absolute worst case scenario is that it's just as good and unreplayable as the final game.
"The beta looks superior in almost every aspect and that's a fact" it's an opinion actually and it's yours. In the end, Pixel is the one who developed Cave Story, he's the one who spent 4 years of his time to create something until it was suitable for him to be proud of. He made the game he wanted to make, and you are entitled to your own opinion but to get as butthurt and upset as you are about it is just embarrassing to you and the rest of us who genuinely are interested in the beta because we love the original game. To sit there and tell Pixel that his intended vision of the game is actually dogshit because the original "looked" better is disingenuous. You might just not like Cave Story. That's fine.

I don't think we should get the beta AT ALL if it's just going to be validating behavior like this tbh. You, and several other people begging to play the beta when Pixel is very adamant about his distaste for it (as are people who have actually played the beta) isn't going to get us anywhere closer to the beta actually being released. Reading the rest of your comments here regarding the matter ("cruel and unusual punishment" because he doesn't want to release an unfinished version of his passion project? Seriously?) makes me think that this is a way bigger deal than it needs to be.


Pixel doesn't want to release the beta. If he ever does, he will do it then. The 20th anniversary is a great time to release it, yeah. But don't start crying if he doesn't.
 
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Mar 14, 2024 at 4:08 PM
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The beta looks superior in almost every aspect and that's a fact. The absolute worst case scenario is that it's just as good and unreplayable as the final game.
Hi, pretentious game developer here. The game I'm working on has been in development for quite a few years now and months ago the project had to do a soft-reset because it was utter garbage.
This is a thing that happens in the industry surprisingly often.

Half-Life 2's beta was vaguely like the final game but different in a bunch of little ways that started to add up to make it different from what we ended up getting. Sound familiar?

Cave Story's beta was thrown out for a good reason : It wasn't well designed and didn't reflect Pixel's artistic goals.
The sprites weren't his best showing as he'd had plenty of time to practice as he worked on the game, and in the time since he scrapped the beta he practiced more. The final game has more detailed tilesets, a more well-balanced soundtrack, and much better actual level design. Not to mention the writing improvements, oh man, do you really think a story about Quote, and watered down versions of what later became Sue and Balrog would've made for a better story? Cave Story is as lovable as it is because of its cast of characters.
And I could go on and on about the design differences in terms of level design, the player's lack of abilities, and the enemy-spam throughout just about every place.
If you just want the beta because it's something different, go play a mod instead, if you just want something from Pixel, consider 100% completing his other games, go buy Azarashi and get all the trophies.

Art is an iterative process. The beta is pretty much just a less polished version of what we ended up getting.
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 4:23 PM
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Good is subjective, but we wouldn't be here if it was bad or didn't leave a positive mark on us in some way would we?
Sure, I respect the final Cave Story, I lost atleast half a year of my life to it+playing mods+modding and it has heavily influenced everything I make, including in programming. But it's just not fun after a couple playthroughs.
Man, I could really go for my 1Xth playthrough of KB, it gets better every time
at least we didn't get "long ass corridor to talk to an NPC who forces you to walk to the beginning and back just to progress"
That sounds more like an intentionally bad joke unlike grasstown which is just bad
(source: a real former nicalis employee who played the beta)
Holy shit this is top tier ragebait if it's real
>just get hired at nicalis and be bros with tyrone/pixel to play the beta dude
>just win at life bro

"The beta looks superior in almost every aspect and that's a fact" it's an opinion actually and it's yours
The level design, the artstyle, palette, HUD and visual effects, the sound design, the spinning blade weapon, the implication that you can get ALL of the weapons in a single playthrough instead of having to trade, the scuba suit, I don't know they all seem to disagree with you.
To sit there and tell Pixel that his intended vision of the game is actually dogshit because the original "looked" better is disingenuous
The beta WAS the intended vision until someone told him it """sucks""", and if this isn't true and Pixel truly hates the beta then why did he put some of the core elements of it that were complained about into Rockfish and StarFrog (buying weapons with coins, weapons with limited ammo, "mazelike" level design)?
to get as butthurt and upset as you are about it
("cruel and unusual punishment" because he doesn't want to release an unfinished version of his passion project?
B5YSvYICMAMJMZm.png

With this and the footage released in 2019, Pixel's the one that keeps dangling new bits of it in our face every once in a while that create even more questions than they answer. I would call it trolling but I think he just fundamentally misunderstands his fanbase.
d90.jpg

I have waited 12 years
 
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Mar 14, 2024 at 5:50 PM
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if this isn't true and Pixel truly hates the beta then why did he put some of the core elements of it that were complained about into Rockfish and StarFrog (buying weapons with coins, weapons with limited ammo, "mazelike" level design)?
I love it when those features were exclusively going to be a Cave Story thing. How DARE Pixel reconsider using them again in future projects? Hell, how dare ANY game developer for having done similar stuff BEFORE Cave Story was even a thing?

With this and the footage released in 2019, Pixel's the one that keeps dangling new bits of it in our face every once in a while that create even more questions than they answer. I would call it trolling but I think he just fundamentally misunderstands his fanbase.
I think you're looking a bit too deep into this. Pixel wasn't even the one who uploaded the beta footage in 2019 anyway. Literally a lot of game developers and playtesters show early development stages of their game long after their release, and Pixel's no special case. Let's say you release a game, it gets picked up by an indie distributor, and you have thousands of people going "ey bitch release beta cave story" in your BBS, your DMs, your tweets, even in your own discord servers, for basically the rest of your life. Wouldn't that make you not want to share it with the world?


I have waited 12 years
tl;dr cope, seethe, mald
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 6:44 PM
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Pixel wasn't even the one who uploaded the beta footage in 2019 anyway.
Surely he was asked for permission?
Half-Life 2's beta was vaguely like the final game but different in a bunch of little ways that started to add up to make it different from what we ended up getting. Sound familiar?
Half-Life 2 beta was also barely a game consisting of a bunch of unconnected test maps. Cave Story beta is an actual game that was almost completable start to finish.
go buy Azarashi and get all the trophies.
I don't have a shartphone
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 8:06 PM
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Wasting my time even responding to this so I'll do it once: It was scrapped for a reason. Pixel threw it aside to release the better rendition of the game. It would be awesome for it to get leaked for archival reasons just like with the Starfrog builds, but it would not rival the release version just the same as those do not. It is pure fantasy to think otherwise. Sure various parts of the game were taken from the beta (as you mentioned Outerwall's tile data dates to 2002 or 2003), but the map list and entity list as seen in your CS editor of choice represent the order with which things were (re)added to the game. You said you don't like the first half of the game which was the most repurposed part. If the release version gets better over time (which I agree on, I also don't like the backtracking) it's proof of Pixel's growth as a developer over the time of finishing the game.
Man, I could really go for my 1Xth playthrough of KB, it gets better every time
Almost like KB was released 10 years later with Pixel having grown as a developer and scrapping at least 2 different versions of it prior.
That sounds more like an intentionally bad joke unlike grasstown which is just bad
If Pixel having done it in jest makes it better than sure. It's in the game though, along with many other questionable design choices.
Holy shit this is top tier ragebait if it's real
It is. I give my full verification of this source of information. People have played the beta and it's a worse version. A thing to celebrate the archival of if it ever came into the public, but it's heavily flawed.
I have waited 12 years
It will either never come out, or you will be so thoroughly disappointed of the pedestal with which you have placed it.
12 years is a lot of time to have wasted.
You have my condolences.
 
Mar 14, 2024 at 8:36 PM
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the first half of the game which was the most repurposed part
WinCurly.png

Not sure how you're getting that idea when this is the only screenshot of the beta that even resembles a layout from the first half of the final.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 4:41 AM
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...Can we stop this, now? This thread is about the near-final testing versions of Cave Story, and now we're arguing about whether Cave Story Beta was "objectively" better than the final game... :(

@Maiden Skittles There's a program that's listed on the Downloads page on the main site alongside the prerelease versions called DoDefuse that should remove the time limit from any of the .exe's. Enjoy your Linerog and your Fantasy Zone Ballos!
 
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