Another Jenka's Nightmare remake

I'm convinced most mods of the time were victim to "write-as-you-go" syndrome (my own included).

This time around however, I've storyboarded the entire mod from start to finish (including the Balrog vs Booster thing a few posts above, now). It's just a matter of putting it together and writing/rewriting the dialog.

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

(And waiting for Zeshiro to get back to me on the new Oblivion and Genesis sprites)

 

I offered you my mind and soul and graphics gale!

Sigh, well if you do need other art I'm still here.

 

Yeah but I searched the forum at that point and didn't see any examples of your work. That and I want some of the stuff being put together to remain a secret until the full release.


Double Post:

I've always found Pier Walk's instrumental choice to be a bit... ear-rape. So I went and changed them a bit:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5nin0t6ni83d3uj/Pier%20Walk.org

 

To be honest, I never really had a problem with Pier Walk. Some of the instruments are a bit high-pitched in some places, but ear-rape is a tremendous stretch.
Personally, I think the original is better than your instrument modification, as yours doesn't blend in as well in my opinion, making the whole thing sound less complex.

 

I'm trying to at the very least make the introductory instrument less intrusive, per sake of the title screen. I've updated the file again, give it another listen (same link)

 

I still like the original better. I really don't see the problem you had/have with it.


Edit: The original is MUCH MORE better. Those synthy saw waves were the heart of that song, and taking them out is just a bad idea.

 

Weekly update:

I've finished the Sanctuary area and the Eroding Valve (Aka G:Spirit and G:Earth respectively). Both these areas are completely redesigned and almost indistinguishable from their original.

Sandzone will probably remain roughly the same as it already is, albeit with a facelift to make it look less obnoxiously man-made. I might add another save room near the first teleporter, however.


Double Post:

Started working on Sandzone.

Spoiler

 

Looks good, and i know i've already asked this a thousand times, but could you please make the puppy puzzle a little easier? a bunch of people say you need to connect gaudi and mimiga, then use flower, but after that nothing is clear, i literately had to do exactly what was in a walkthrough. Could you make it something like:
connect gaudi to mimiga>go to flower>get the booster>go back, and once you have the booster, feed gaudi puppy and use teleporter to go to the last area of sand zone? right now its sorta like
connect gaudi to mimiga>go to flower>get the booster>try every single teleporter and feed every puppy until you use doukutsu trainers infinite booster function get to the last area.

 

I've only expressed the desire and intent in doing so three times already in this topic.


Double Post

Roughly 90% done Sandzone's map. Just need to do that dinky area in the bottom left where it connects to Labyrinth.

Spoiler

(This is the area at the top before Misery's Abode. Because it was ugly as shit before.)

 

Looks very nice, Zarro.

 

Spoiler

 

Some of those new tiles look good, but just by looking at your screenshot, I think that the actual layout of that area in the original JN and JNR were better than your revision. The way you had to maneuver around the spikes I thought was perfect, and now I think it's silly that you can now get down there or back up so easily. Also, those three moving blocks before that door there. If you removed the crushing blocks, then I think you should put them back. They weren't really hard to get past, and I think that that obstacle was a very small, quick and fun puzzle to solve. If you're keeping them, then I think you should keep the ceiling level, because making the moving blocks all reside at different heights kind of diminishes a bit of the charm, neatness, and straightforwardness that that area had.

 

That's from BL, by default it doesn't show the entities in the map editor.

 

I'll note that the Labyrinth is intended to be the first real area you have the Booster 0.8. It's true that I doubt too many people will play the mod who haven't played cave story, but from the simple perspective of game design, immediately expecting the player to have full experience with a new toy is blasphemous.

However, since Sand Zone is a bit of a practice area, I won't baby the player entirely. There will be some grey spikes in that water pool. As for the sliding blocks, the honest reason I've shifted them slightly is they'd always immediately kill me on any run of the game I've ever had fresh. Probably because the introduction to ANOTHER new toy/enemy was met with 'hey let's kill the player'.

Besides, since the game will end on the note of actually 'complete', it's going to be at least if not more than twice as long as the original. So I have plenty of future opportunities to return to these same elements.

 

That's from BL, by default it doesn't show the entities in the map editor.

I suspected something like that. That's why in my post, I also spoke my opinion on the possibility that he hadn't done away with them.

I'll note that the Labyrinth is intended to be the first real area you have the Booster 0.8. It's true that I doubt too many people will play the mod who haven't played cave story, but from the simple perspective of game design, immediately expecting the player to have full experience with a new toy is blasphemous.

Basically what you're saying is that the previous path was too hard in your opinion? I disagree. I think it was perfect difficulty. I'm sure that anyone who was able to get through the Sand Zone should be able to get through those spikes without much trouble. The way it is now is too easy in my opinion, even if there are some spikes in the water. (unless, of course, they were everywhere in the water, in which case you'd want to avoid landing in that area entirely.)

As for the sliding blocks, the honest reason I've shifted them slightly is they'd always immediately kill me on any run of the game I've ever had fresh. Probably because the introduction to ANOTHER new toy/enemy was met with 'hey let's kill the player'.

Essentially what you're saying is that you thought the way it is in the original is too hard? Personally, I don't think your new way with the shifting tiles looks much easier, if at all. The left and right shifting tiles may be farther up than in the original, but the change of the level of the ground could be a bit jarring. The levelness of both the ceiling from which the three shifting tiles came down, and that of the ground you walk on to pass under them is part of what made me like that small area. When I first played it, it really didn't feel for me like every new step you take in IWBTG where some new thing randomly pops out and kills you. Even then, there is a save point, right before all of this, so it's really no big deal if the player gets killed the first time they try to cross it.

Besides, since the game will end on the note of actually 'complete', it's going to be at least if not more than twice as long as the original. So I have plenty of future opportunities to return to these same elements.

If you mean that at some later point, you'll use three shifting blocks in the same way that the original JN did it here, then I might consider giving my criticism on this area a rest, but only if that is the case.

 

Oh yes I agree that the block placement in that room was preposterous, I'm glad you're changing it. I remember having to hack the game to get through a lot of the time.

Dammit hayden how did you ninja me
I do think you're overreacting a bit though, they're just three blocks in a small area; there isn't really any deep philosophical reason to not change it
And I think that ZT adding a learning curve is a beautiful thing, but maybe it's just me.

 

There should be a learning curve but this is a sequel to the good ending. You're expected to have beat the good ending because it will be difficult and sort of have spoilers. The 0.8 isn't a "new toy", it's something everyone has used (unless they're losers and used a guide to get the good ending before even playing).

 

Even then, there is a save point, right before all of this, so it's really no big deal if the player gets killed the first time they try to cross it.

I was hoping someone would bring that up! (Because I am a dick)

The problem with barring immediate bastard difficulty by warrent of a 'nearby save point' is that there is always a chance that the player will opt to explore a bit first, and save later after scoping the challenges ahead. Saving the game, while expected, isn't manditory. Assuming it is with a newly added element that the player is possibly unaware of, and killing the player on behalf of that idea, is really dumb.

I've risen the chamber for the third block a bit to make it less of a threat for people who jump on top of the 2nd block as well now. Still, the later room with the not-balfrog boss is much more focal on the moving blocks, so it'll be where the actual player-killing begins.

The 0.8 isn't a "new toy", it's something everyone has used (unless they're losers and used a guide to get the good ending before even playing).

Ironically, the 2.0 curb stomps previous experience with the 0.8 due to how differently and more direct it handles. People who beat Hell the very first time around were likely accustomed to many hell mods and quite possibly mastered the 2.0, but likely didn't ever get put through a similar sort of torment with the 0.8 (Feel free to prove me wrong with an 0.8 hell mod. I'd actually love to try some crazy-hard 0.8 hell maps).

So unfortunately, the excuse that people already beat the good ending is on-par with people who never did, or never played the original game.

I'd like to also remind people that you'll have the 0.8 for a bit longer in this re-mod too, scoping one of two on the genesis/oblivion routes after you get out of the Labyrinth. The other of which is changed a bit to act as a 2.0 introduction area (or perhaps will stay exactly the same? Hmm).

 

I do think you're overreacting a bit though, they're just three blocks in a small area; there isn't really any deep philosophical reason to not change it

I haven't gone into detail about this much because I haven't had enough time to complete the demo, but there's something about Zarrotsu's new maps that bug me. His tileset edits are fantastic, and I really like some of the new visuals, but when I actually played part of the demo, something just felt wrong. I couldn't really place my finger on it, but something about the maps and their layouts felt inferior to the original JN and not as fun. I now try to point out specific details about the levels that I liked better before in the hopes of keeping the charm of the areas that I loved from being diminished. Minor details were part of what made Jenka's Nightmare great, and I want those to be preserved. And one of the minor details that I personally liked about the level design of the Labyrinth was the way those three shifting tiles were configured, and the quick and fun puzzle of getting past them. I want the charm that Jenka's Nightmare had to be preserved in this remake/continuation, because I want this to live up to Shmitz's work.

And I think that ZT adding a learning curve is a beautiful thing, but maybe it's just me.

Pretty much what Dunc said above me.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Zarrotsu

The problem with barring immediate bastard difficulty by warrent of a 'nearby save point' is that there is always a chance that the player will opt to explore a bit first, and save later after scoping the challenges ahead. Saving the game, while expected, isn't manditory. Assuming it is with a newly added element that the player is possibly unaware of, and killing the player on behalf of that idea, is really dumb.

The thing is, people are probably going to know that those blocks there are shifting blocks because that was a gameplay element seen in the original Cave Story, so I'd be surprised if it comes as an unexpected surprise to someone that the blocks there start shifting when Quote passes under them.

Ironically, the 2.0 curb stomps previous experience with the 0.8 due to how differently and more direct it handles. People who beat Hell the very first time around were likely accustomed to many hell mods and quite possibly mastered the 2.0, but likely didn't ever get put through a similar sort of torment with the 0.8 (Feel free to prove me wrong with an 0.8 hell mod. I'd actually love to try some crazy-hard 0.8 hell maps).

So unfortunately, the excuse that people already beat the good ending is on-par with people who never did, or never played the original game.

The point Dunc was making was that people who will be playing this mod are people who got the good ending, and that since they beat hell, they're good at Cave Story. And if they're good at Cave Story, they'll be able to easily adapt to what the game throws at them. Might I also add that in Jenka's Nightmare, you do get quite a bit of time to play around with the Booster v 0.8 in the Sand Zone. You seem to be acting like the player's first experience in this mod using the Booster 0.8 is in the Labyrinth, but there are plenty of places in the Sand Zone that cannot be traversed without the Booster 0.8. And they'll be spending extra time in there if it's their first time, because they'll be figuring out the puppy teleporter puzzle.

 

and now I think it's silly that you can now get down there or back up so easily.

I found that annoying actually, so I approve of the change. I shouldn't need to restart the game just because I fell in a hole.