Another Jenka's Nightmare remake

Feb 21, 2013 at 9:18 PM
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Well I'm not making it 'easy' per se, I'm just making it so the puppies actually SAY who the hell they're pointing to, instead of just incohesive barking. I'd rather a message that says "This teleporter is presently pointed at Gaudi!" than "Arf! Arf!" (Which isn't even a good example, since it would 'Arf!' twice for AT LEAST TWO DIFFERENT POINTERS)

That and I'll make the Cthulhu give a second hint if you talk to him a second time for the 'mimiga eats flowers' quip.

(Also I might add a 'dog whistle' item that resets all three teleporters upon use. Just an idea.)
 
Feb 21, 2013 at 9:51 PM
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I like the dog whistle-idea-thing, but it seems silly to have the dogs specifically state the destination. Maybe keep the barking but change the actual teleporter interaction text to correspond with the destination? It would make a little more sense in my opinion.
 
Feb 21, 2013 at 10:25 PM
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Quick! Color code the teleporters based on destination!
 
Feb 23, 2013 at 2:15 AM
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I like it. The maps are well-made and it looks good. I didn't get farther than the village though.
 
Feb 23, 2013 at 5:03 PM
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Have you ever played this mod?
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/threads/2938/

There Quote has some kind of mute interaction with the characters a la Mario-RPG
It would be cool if you could implement that
Breathes some life to the almost nonexistent character (Quote)
 
Feb 24, 2013 at 6:39 PM
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Have you ever played this mod?
Yes.


It would be cool if you could implement that
Could, but won't. Because it doesn't work in Cave Story. The reason it worked so well in Mario RPG is because it was fun to watch Mario defy all laws of the universe only for everyone to accept that it was happening like that's normal for that world. Cave story, however, doesn't have such luck in letting Quote shapeshift into other entities to explain the situation, because it isn't as dynamic a story, nor is Jenka's Nightmare.


In other news, I'm putting off SandZone to work on Sanctuary (Aka Genesis:Spirit), and redoing the bloody flame puzzle. If this sounds disjointed and farther away than the promised demo, I'm shoving it all in the little hidey-hole where you find King's sword (It will be entirely normal-jump accessible, of course).
 
Feb 24, 2013 at 6:45 PM
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Um.
I don't think he meant the shapeshifting.
I think he meant the fact that he keeps dancing as a form of communication. Cause uh Redesign doesn't have a shapeshifting Quote either.
 
Feb 26, 2013 at 1:58 PM
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Dancing around like a bozo doesn't have the same charm as SMRPG did.


Messing around in Org Maker yielded this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dgbiqbni7mhufg5/Recharge.org


TRIPLE POST COMBO:

After discussing it with Dunc last night, I'm opening a discussion here as to where and when and whether optional or mandatory you meet Balrog.
 
Feb 26, 2013 at 5:57 PM
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Maybe you should meet him a bit later than the whole Genesis part early on? The Machine Gun is pretty much 9000 times better than the Fireball, and if you keep the trade the same, there's really no reason not to take it. Actually, keeping the Fireball(to make into another Snake with Chaba or the Gunsmith) might be a good idea, but I digress.

Maybe you should make finding him optional. Perhaps it could contribute to a good ending, like leaving him behind puts you on a track for a bad or mediocre ending. And if you do find him...perhaps have him come with you? I always find it annoying when he just stands in one spot for the whole game, like in A Lost Land or JNR. It could also set up a scene in Mimiga Village with the Mimiga's reactions.

...

Sorry for the rambling ^_^;
 
Feb 26, 2013 at 8:43 PM
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I honestly think he was in a fine position in the original.
 
Feb 27, 2013 at 2:14 PM
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And I don't see why you think all the "Genesis:" areas are interconnected. Nothing says or suggests this, nor is it suggested they can teleport people around.

As such, why does the island have two separate areas of the same name with such a large gap between them? What's the point in going to the latter area when all it does is effectively teleport you to Genesis:Water through Genesis:Earth somehow, despite G:E being under sandzone, underwhich is the bottom of the island, and yet somehow Gen:Water is next to/below it, this only being the result of Shmitz assuming the Labyrinth HAD TO be close to Sandzone, which HAD TO double back onto itself in some way. Because the island is apparently two-dimensional, and looks like a pong rectangle from the side.

Now I'm not saying the G:W area can't be connected to Sandzone somehow, but I highly doubt such areas would exist immediately beside one another, just as I highly doubt mimiga village is BELOW sandzone, while simultaneously to the far left of it next to Grasstown. The map as-is in this case is


[Mimiga Village] [Grasstown] [Labyrinth?] [Sandzone] [Water Area?] [Labyrinth??] [Water Area!?]
[Spirit Area?] [Graveyard??] [Mimiga Village?!?]

And then it just gets confusing.

Now, the reason we can rule that the aqua area is next to the sand area is twofold: the tileset is the same, and both streams end up in the same general location. The reason we can rule Grasstown is next to Mimiga village is because of the simple connection between the two (as well as a lot of fan theory), and the reason we can rule G:W is above or beside Mimiga village is because... well, it's entered via the reservoir.

What I'm doing at the very least of this is spacing things out a little more if only to make the island feel as big as it felt in the original game. If we're to believe that Genesis and Oblivion have truly been expanding the island, then these such rough connections should be further away, not closer together. In the original game it isn't implied that the waterway is IMMEDIATELY above Mimiga village; if anything it's far, far away from it, and happens that an artery of water passes by, or branches off overhead. Although ultimately all this does is serve to show that even the map connections I'm keeping intact are nearly impossible, but let's assume that the labyrinth, at the very least, got pushed toward Mimiga Village.

Still, most of these 'Well they just HAPPEN to be next to one another!" concepts are highly unlikely. But, nonetheless, they're there as a method of serving the way the new story develops. And "Get to Balrog through Genesis Spirit which goes to Genesis Earth which goes to Genesis Water" is a really bullshit stretch.

I'm centralizing the locations in the game to one distinct location each. I'm not saying that it's unlikely these places would blend together (hell, they SHOULD be blending together if anything), but it's unlikely that they'd be connecting to one another in the way that Shmitz intended, but never actually explained. And all this lack of explanation hurts the game.

Genesis:Spirit is being centralized in its location under the island where you'd find King's sword. All these such events will occur there, after which is the only pity-teleport back to the Genesis:Earth area. Which is why I'm moving Balrog around, to make up for it. I've a different plan for that door in the graveyard than just a crummy throw-away area.
 
Feb 27, 2013 at 8:10 PM
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ZarroTsu said:
And I don't see why you think all the "Genesis:" areas are interconnected. Nothing says or suggests this, nor is it suggested they can teleport people around.
Nothing says or suggests that they can't. And why can't there be two Genesis: Spirits?
Anyway, if you're really that upset about it you could always just change one of the two areas' names
 
Feb 27, 2013 at 8:31 PM
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I've already merged the two, though. But this is just dancing around the question: why is Balrog optional? What does it affect to NOT get him? I understand the machinegun is rather powerful (plus the whole infinite-flight-if-you-know-how-to-hold-the-jump-key thing), but it being optional is already technically there when Balrog poses the question of whether or not you want to trade with him. The sequece of events will still occur as before; I just more or less need to know where in the story it should occur.

Presently I'm looking at having a separate sand area between labyrinth and sandzone where he's flailing around in the sand instead. Then when he busts sideways you're seperated from him and you wind up at the same labyrinth entrance as before, while he winds up somewhere else.

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

"Somewhere else" being probably the Core room.



Really, the only thing I have actually up in the air is when abouts you should receive the Booster 2.0. It's rather cheep and gimpy that Booster immediately slaps it together on a whim like it's a reward, when it's really sort of optional. The bottom line is, in the original mod at least, the Booster 2.0 doesn't actually have a benefit. So moving it and the machine-gun around is more or less the main thing that stumps me. I'm hinging violently between "after you kill one of the main bosses" and "after you kill both the main bosses" between both when you get 2.0 and when you find Balrog.
 
Feb 27, 2013 at 8:53 PM
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ZarroTsu said:
It's rather cheep and gimpy that Booster immediately slaps it together on a whim like it's a reward, when it's really sort of optional.
Sort of like the Hermit gunsmith quickly upgrades the Polar Star to the Spur on a whim like it's a reward?
ZarroTsu said:
The bottom line is, in the original mod at least, the Booster 2.0 doesn't actually have a benefit.
Not true. In the original Jenka's Nightmare, you're not supposed to enter the Waterway without the Booster 2.0. The blue robot by the entrance tells you you aren't suited to go there if you don't have it. Without the Booster 2.0, it's impossible to make it all the way through Genesis: Water without constantly using spike hurt and extra jump tricks that are very hard to do.
 
Feb 27, 2013 at 9:21 PM
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Not to mention Chimney.
 
Feb 28, 2013 at 1:11 AM
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And on that merit, the difficulty doesn't exactly curve so much as spike. You aren't given much actual use to the 0.8 to escalate toward using 2.0 for hard-core puzzles.

However, on the other hand, if you were to attain the machinegun without the booster 2.0, you could still, ignoring the stupid cockblock robot, make it through genesis:water entirely unscathed.

Of course this is also assuming G:W will remain completely the same difficulty. If I ultimately decide to have booster show up with the 2.0 between major bosses, I will have the 2nd of the areas change to a more LastCave(Hidden) state that makes better use out of the 2.0.


MagicDoors said:
Not to mention Chimney.
Chimney wasn't even possible WITH the 2.0. My worry isn't 0.8 vs 2.0, it's 2.0 vs MachineGun.


Sort of like the Hermit gunsmith quickly upgrades the Polar Star to the Spur on a whim like it's a reward?
It actually is. You're prompted the opportunity to not once, but twice, trade in your polar star for a better weapon. The second of which is irreversible (and arguably much more useful). And the fade to black doesn't imply instantaneous transition. It could have taken hours. In this mod, however...

When I say "it will take time" for him to upgrade the booster, nobody said anything about upgrading YOUR booster. The dude's been on the island for at least a few months, and he made the original booster 0.8 in a matter of days since he got to the island. I think he has more than one.
 
Feb 28, 2013 at 3:06 AM
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ZarroTsu said:

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

"Somewhere else" being probably the Core room.

Aaaaaaaargh
It's the like the people who remade it/are remaking it don't even /care/ about what Shmitz was going to do
 
Feb 28, 2013 at 3:47 PM
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Dunc2403 said:
Aaaaaaaargh
It's the like the people who remade it/are remaking it don't even /care/ about what Shmitz was going to do
Does it really matter at this point?

Given that the mod has come to this point where it has to be continued by others, I'd say even Shmitz himself doesn't care anymore about what he was going to do.
 
Feb 28, 2013 at 5:45 PM
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Shmitz has been gone for years...even his last sudden appearance only lasted a couple of days, and that was back in 2012.

He didn't show any anger toward Magic for picking it up, and since we have no idea what he was actually planning to do, I think it's perfectly fine if ZarroTsu spins it his own way.
 
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