A Real Gosh Darned Community Project

Heh, you are wiser than most people I know. To be honest I thought it was a good structure, albeit one that requires a lot of communication between members.

Here's a good concept that hopefully will be fun. Mirai Gamer's Mod!

To put it simply, it contains the active members interacting with various characters from mods, ranging from enemies to friends.

Some of the more active members can be bosses. You know who I'm talking about.

There doesn't have to be any real story, just a mod starring us as the characters.

(oh and just in case this works, the former wolf avatar can be used, I'm using it as my profile picture.)

 

Heh, you are wiser than most people I know.

Quoted for truth.

To put it simply, it contains the active members interacting with various characters from mods, ranging from enemies to friends.

Some of the more active members can be bosses. You know who I'm talking about.

There doesn't have to be any real story, just a mod starring us as the characters.

Hehe, that idea sounds familiar (I think SP had a similar idea a while ago but it never happened, but I wanted it to...)

Here's a random idea I have regarding organization of the project. Previously, community projects have had basically one leader or no leader, and they've pretty much failed, which leads me to believe a different sort of structure might be necessary. I propose there be two leaders. One is the "head designer" who makes most of the major decisions about the mod itself including storyline and level design, as well as what music/graphics/assembly hacks/misc ideas will be used in the mod. The other is the "organizer" who enforces deadlines and can act as a go-between between the head designer and idea submitters (in case the head designer is too busy working on the mod to frequent the forums; a problem I often faced when working on my mod). It might be nice if the two leaders had contact IRL although idk how many forum members actually do (and are competent/willing leaders).

 

I might be noob, but honestly, don't take everything to seriously, you won't get anywhere if you don't use you own head and just assume every word reality really.. :")

How I but can't if don't I want assume to when what?

After reading though, I'd say your idea of running a project won't work. Simply because people won't set this project as a priority, and just forget about it. There will be hardly any focus, people will get lost, don't know what to do, unless you give them a clear line of wha to do when or what. And whenever you do that, you'll be back to the "big extravagant design team", which doesn't have to be extravagant but hey.

Doing it the way you outlined has already failed. Dramatically. THREE TIMES. A different approach is not merely a suggestion, it is a necessary step that needs to be taken.

There are dickloads of talent in this community, more than enough for people to collaborate intelligently and create something by working together. By the same logic implying that people will need to be led around by the nose in order to get anything done, who's to say that anybody is actually competent enough to lead a project by themselves? It's that kind of weak mentality that contributed to all the other community projects getting nowhere. This entire subforum and everything in it is evidence that each person is capable of creating direction and structure on their own; now they just need to be willing to work as a team.

I think this idea would be kind of hard to handle; If you're thinking if the community would start a mod or hack project for cavestory. I had this idea of merging all of the people's mod characters into one, like a allstars thing, and they all have to destroy some kind of evil or something.

Here's a good concept that hopefully will be fun. Mirai Gamer's Mod!

To put it simply, it contains the active members interacting with various characters from mods, ranging from enemies to friends.

Or maybe not... Jesus CHRIST you people are unoriginal

This isn't something where you can just pop in and say "lol gaiz lets make mod DO IT NOW " The project will never get anywhere, everyone will forget about it, and then in another 6 months someone will start another community mod thread and I'll have to explain this all again. I'll be ignored, the project will never get anywhere, everyone will forget about it, and then in another 6 monffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. A bit of pattern recognition never did anybody any harm -_-

@ Cheese: I say, why stop at two? If the team isn't going to be much larger than that anyway, why limit it at all?

 

Wow, you just don't want this to work, do you doublethink?

If you haven't noticed, some people are actually trying to get it going, yet, here you are, shooting down every single suggestion that's ever made.

Who says this has to be original? This is another attempt to get the community together on a project. Originality would actually be a problem, due to many conflicting ideas and attitudes. Simply trying to decide on a good idea for a mod would only result in petty fights between members who disagree on one another's ideas and wants.

Hell, the only way this could be done is if is somewhat generic and agreeable to all. It doesn't have to be some massively epic story, just an interesting, fun mod. Heck, if it works, it could be a collage of various ideas from the members.

We could use the Tic-Tac-Toe game (sorry, don't know who's it is), GirakaCheezer's portal gun, and Voidmage_Lowell's Trivia show (aka Balrog's quiz show) sorry just to spice things up.

Two leaders sound like a fantastic idea. Kind of like President and Vice President (if something happens to one, the other can speak in his place.)

In other words, we have to keep it somewhat simple.

 

Or maybe not... Jesus CHRIST you people are unoriginal

This isn't something where you can just pop in and say "lol gaiz lets make mod DO IT NOW " The project will never get anywhere, everyone will forget about it, and then in another 6 months someone will start another community mod thread and I'll have to explain this all again. I'll be ignored, the project will never get anywhere, everyone will forget about it, and then in another 6 monffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. A bit of pattern recognition never did anybody any harm -_-

@ Cheese: I say, why stop at two? If the team isn't going to be much larger than that anyway, why limit it at all?

Don't even go there comparing me to un-originality. You're going a little ahead of yourself right after that Cavewiki incident, what's wrong man? You may say it's un-original, but what will it stop from being interesting?
Plus, on a side note, I'm not suspecting a Community Project anyways. It's good to see that the community would get together to do something, however I did see alot of failures, BUT, there is no reason to rage about it. Who in the living hell said that the project was going to start NOW?! People such as that fairy guy is just excited, but probably hasn't seen the other failure projects yet, making him think that this would be successful.

There is no need to state opinions about something that has already been covered. Why stir it up again? Go ahead and quote my text and modify it to make my words sound stupid, or say TL;DR, but heed my words, there is no need to make such a big deal out of it.

I'm in no ones side either, not your side, and defiantly not with the project's side. I was just stating an idea.

 

Friendly fire?

Wow, you just don't want this to work, do you doublethink?

If you haven't noticed, some people are actually trying to get it going, yet, here you are, shooting down every single suggestion that's ever made.

No one's joined, it's not really going anywhere as of yet. All we've done so far is talk about it...
Words aren't very substantial. {As helpful as they're meant to be}

We could use the Tic-Tac-Toe game (sorry, don't know who's it is), GirakaCheezer's portal gun, and Ralren's Trivia show just to spice things up.

{Wait, Ralren's Trivia show? What happen to Balrog's Quiz show?}
Anyway, yeah, that's where he's saying all the massive talent is coming from, but organizing it and getting it to do something is another matter.
So far we've just spat words at each other.
Just like other {failed} projects.

You can keep talking about the it, giving out all sorts of wonderful suggestion and ideas, but unless someone does something, the project's not even gonna get off the ground...
It's the first step that's the hardest.
Not that any of the others after it are necessarily easy...

Heh, look at me just talking about it, too...

 

Woops, sorry about that Lowell, kinda got ahead of myself.

Not really sure why I thought it was Ralren's.

I'll fix it so there's no more confusion.

Eh, without some support, nothing's gonna happen.

If it doesn't work, I ain't gonna care.

 

If you haven't noticed, some people are actually trying to get it going,

Not really.

yet, here you are, shooting down every single suggestion that's ever made.

Over-exaggeration, but again, history shows they haven't worked.

Originality would actually be a problem, due to many conflicting ideas and attitudes. Simply trying to decide on a good idea for a mod would only result in petty fights between members who disagree on one another's ideas and wants.

"Lol thinking is hard". Seriously? Originality should be discouraged because working together makes it more difficult? Do you really think the people working on this are going to be that selfishly motivated?

In other words, we have to keep it somewhat simple.

I AM trying to keep it simple, I'm the one saying NOT to blow it out into a huge project with 5 people for every job.

Could you maybe think about what you're saying before you say it and start blindly accusing me of things? I don't mean to snap but I have absolutely no patience for when people make me out to be doing something I'm not.

You're going a little ahead of yourself right after that Cavewiki incident, what's wrong man?

What does me having my stuff nicked have to do with anything?

You may say it's un-original, but what will it stop from being interesting?

...The unoriginality?
Let me clarify something here. Trying to make a mod with everyone's characters in it isn't as clean-cut as it sounds. Effectively you are putting control over everyone else's different characters into the hands of one or two people. This results in two outcomes:
-Everyone needs to give input on their character/where they want them to be/what they want them to do, so everyone ends up involved anyway, nothing gets done, project fails (what happened before), or
-They take no input and just wing it, everyone ends up pissed off because they 'did it wrong'.
Not to mention I feel like there will be more motivation to make something original; it will allow not only for more control but for more freedom of ideas. Pixel doesn't like big CS-related projects, as I said before, so that rules out that as well. It doesn't need to be complicated, but trying to mix everyone's characters in isn't just a bit bland, it's quite possibly the most complicated thing to actually execute of all.

BUT, there is no reason to rage about it.

Big post = rage? I wasn't aware that I was angry.

Who in the living hell said that the project was going to start NOW?!

There's no point in it starting it in the first place unless there's an outline of how it's actually going to work.

There is no need to state opinions about something that has already been covered. Why stir it up again?

Good thing that I'm not actually doing that then. ...At all. This hasn't been "covered", otherwise there wouldn't still be people questioning it.

Anyway, yeah, that's where he's saying all the massive talent is coming from, but organizing it and getting it to do something is another matter.
So far we've just spat words at each other.
Just like other {failed} projects.

LISTEN TO THIS MAN. Treating a project casually is one thing but treating it like a joke is something else altogether. My idea + Cheese's is the only one so far attempting to try something new - it's not at all complicated, merely unfamiliar. I've even suggested a way for it to get off the ground in a timely fashion (PMing Lace/someone else), and get a clear idea of who's available for the important jobs. I mean you can go with the "fuck you programmer we don't need" idea if you want, I'm not going to stop you, but some form of organisation needs to be established, yes, even before considering things like a project leader. It's not up to me to show the initiative, I'm not wanting to work on this, I'm just trying to explain how faffing about with failed outlines isn't going to work. If y'all want to get something done, you have to do something, yeah?

 

It's so funny how you keep breaking everything down, trying to bend everyone's words, but self don't come up with your simple design.


You are talking about something simple with 5 people. Well, appereantly you have some idea up there. BUt none of us, except for the people you appereantly PM'd know what or how you really want to do things. Instead of suggesting things, you are merely "suggesting" why other people's way of work won't work - by bending words really. Did you actually read the posts they made?


Anyways, Even though I'm a noob on the programmer level, I can do heaps at the music section and such. And if you want, I can also do some pixelworks, even animations. Let's say I'm in. What the hell should I do except for randomly make stuff... Trying to look tough.

Let's say you got your 4/5 man for this project to work on. How would you do it, how would you organise it?


Start of with explaining that first before throwing flames towards others. If you want your idea to be accepted you *do* have to explain it instead of just saying "OMFG DIZ NUT WORK, YUR IDEA IS ST00P1D GO DIE PLIES. MY IDEA RAWKS IT'S JUST 5 MAN PROJECT 1337 ShiZzLE D00D!1!".

And I don't want you to see quote every bit of my post saying what's wrong about every single bit of my post. We already know you have a lot of time to whine about every single detail. Just spit it out already.


Edit: Fuck yeah, I got less then 10 posts, and people are already quoting me in their signature. Fuck yeah!

 

And I don't want you to see quote every bit of my post saying what's wrong about every single bit of my post. We already know you have a lot of time to whine about every single detail. Just spit it out already.

Fine, I won't give you the dignity of a thoughtful response. How's this: You are a bleating moron who doesn't have a clue what they're talking about yet still feels they have the right to try and shift the blame when they get called out for their bullshit.

I haven't PM'd anyone, I never once said that I had. I have explained my idea, I have stated that it's just an idea, just that going over the same tired old process again isn't going to work because it has NEVER worked. I have taken everything that's been said at face value and detailed my position, it's not my fault if it doesn't make sense. I haven't twisted anybody's words, I haven't flamed anyone, and don't you dare accuse me of doing so, you little shit. All I want to see is some confidence, to harness the great potential that I know is there, but as per usual I have to constantly backpedal and defend myself because people like you can't take criticism without it being dressed up in daisies and sprinkled in icing sugar. I am rarely one to openly criticise, but I simply cannot stand for blatantly open self-assured stupidity like you've shown. So go on and chuck a wobbly because I'm not willing to suck your dick the moment you join up, be my fucking guest.





Three projects have started in this fashion. None of them have really gotten anywhere. What more evidence do I need to show to suggest that a new approach is needed? Is 'sending a PM' that hard of a concept to grasp? Or that bad of an idea that it's not even worth trying? Lace hasn't even had a chance to have a say on the matter yet. I'll apologise for the unoriginality crack, but that sort of idea really just doesn't appeal to me :<

I'd appreciate it if the rest of you didn't try and turn this into some sort of personal war a la this idiot, because I'm not trying to have a go at any of you, I'm just tired of seeing these things fall flat on their face. I should hope I've at least earned enough respect to get the benefit of the doubt once in a blue moon. Nobody else gets called out for making a big post about something -_-

 

I know I am a nobody here, but at least this fucking nobody idiotic moron tries to make something out of it.
Yes, I know things like this usually don't work, but I have seen it work as well. Both in real life and on forums. Big project containing over 30 people, and small ones, with just 3 or 4 people working on something.


Yet again, You are referring to "a new approach". Let me find the post with your 'new approach".

The best size for a "community mod" is about 3-5. Anyone can submit art/music/etc., but mapping/hacking need two people at most, or things just get confusing, and having any more than one writer is just impractical. It also helps if the team can be flexible; if someone wants to quit/hasn't got time to work, there are plenty of others around to take up the slack. The mapper(s) in particular also need to work together with the writer, because a separately written script does not always mean good level design, and vice versa. It would be useful if someone could do both (most people here can both write and map, after all), or you could just ditch story altogether/keep it v. simple.

This is just a set up. How does anyone know where to start, where to work from. How do we know who needs what when who's doing what. Were you planning to improvise every single bit when time gets here?

I certainly don't know how the other 3 projects went, but seeing this, I'd say they all went from due the lack of organisation, and probably also due "morons" whining things should go different, idea's are wrong etc etc.


Now. Before you answer, ask yourself this. "Am I calm? Do I need to relax before I post?" If your answer is "Yes", Go ahead and reply. Otherwise you shouldn't even bother.
I'm sure you're a great guy, with fantastic idea's. But seeing this only makes me feel you're the idiot, the newb. Try to learn to communicate, perhaps you'll archieve something doing so.

Now, I'd appreciate if someone else gives an opinion about how we should continue. Would 4/5 people be good, should it be open, or with solid jobs, etc etc..

 

Hey, I just realized something...

not that I'm up for being overlord of this project or anything, but yeah...

first on our imaginary agenda: how are we going to make sure this doesn't fail?

GO! (discuss)

See that word?

discuss

Know what that means?

This is simply a discussion on how to get the project going, who does what, and what this mod is going to be about.

It's not about MAKING the mod, just how exactly we go about doing that.

Unless you have something to contribute to said "discussion", Doublethink, please, do not post. We really have no need for your bitching.

Oh, and few people actually realize when they are angry.

 

Sheesh, I feel like a hypocrite just dicussing

So let's try explaining things a little more detailed, since someone's not getting the point...

I know I am a nobody here, but at least this fucking nobody idiotic moron tries to make something out of it.
Yes, I know things like this usually don't work, but I have seen it work as well. Both in real life and on forums. Big project containing over 30 people, and small ones, with just 3 or 4 people working on something.

You haven't made anything out of this project yet, just more and more words.
This project is still at point 1, and unless you or someone does something, instead of just talking about it, it'll stay there.
Arguing about how someone's trying to bring it down is a silly point when there's nothing to there to bring down, in the first place.

I certainly don't know how the other 3 projects went, but seeing this, I'd say they all went from due the lack of organisation, and probably also due "morons" whining things should go different, idea's are wrong etc etc.

Actually, they probably went down just like this, where people just argued and argued about the whole thing, and never actually got anything done. {Or even started}
Those "morons" you're talking about are the ones who think words mean progress.

Now. Before you answer, ask yourself this. "Am I calm? Do I need to relax before I post?" If your answer is "Yes", Go ahead and reply. Otherwise you shouldn't even bother.
I'm sure you're a great guy, with fantastic idea's. But seeing this only makes me feel you're the idiot, the newb. Try to learn to communicate, perhaps you'll archieve something doing so.

I think you need to think a bit more before you post, yourself.
You've already admitted to being a new member, and admitted to not knowing how the past three projects on these forums went....
DoubleThink is a senior member who's been around for the previous projects, and he knows with experience {and some common sense} about how this will probably turn out...

And try to learn to listen.
He's not simply shooting people's ideas down in spite, he's just telling you that walking on thin ice is dumb {Metaphor}.
Unless you've have previous project experience before, I'd be listening to all the advice I could get.
DoubleThink's not trying to kill this project, he's trying to help it succeed.

Now, I'd appreciate if someone else gives an opinion about how we should continue. Would 4/5 people be good, should it be open, or with solid jobs, etc etc..

Continue? We haven't even started yet...

This is simply a discussion on how to get the project going, who does what, and what this mod is going to be about.

Alright, go ahead, discuss to your hearts content...
We're not trying to be mean or harsh or anything, but the cold reality is that a simple discussion will not be taken seriously by half the members of these forums, and that in all likeliness, it will be forgotten and become Failed Project #4...

But don't mistake DT's posts as hatred or anger, he simply wants this project to go somewhere.

 

So does anyone with past experience have any real suggestions as to how this should be done? So far, I haven't seen much in suggestions, the only one to suggest some kind of format for doing things was MysticFairy.

Talk is cheap, people, so come on, let's get some ideas here, at least for structure.

Or at least some form of how the hell to do this thing.

 

Now. Before you answer, ask yourself this. "Am I calm? Do I need to relax before I post?" If your answer is "Yes", Go ahead and reply. Otherwise you shouldn't even bother.

Quoted for truth. Also, everyone should really take this to heart, not just DoubleThink. I don't claim to be an expert on what the best way to organize a community project is, but I am pretty sure getting angry and starting a flame war is not the way to do it.

And please, please don't respond to this by saying "I wasn't angry stop yelling at me, cheese, I hate you, grrrrr, flame flame flame". Although I'm sure none of you are stupid enough to do something like that. Please don't prove me wrong.

And now for 2 more of my cents about the project. I think it might be wise to decide now what the premise of the project is going to be. Probably nothing CS related, due to Pixel's attitude toward such things. In any case, deciding what the premise will be will help people decide how active they want to be in the project and what role they want to play. How 'bout now we throw around some ideas, and once we have enough, vote on them?

I'll put the first idea on the table. Many of you know that "Cave Story: Christmas Edition" mod that I wanted to make for Christmas last year, didn't, and now plan to make for Christmas this year. Well, knowing me, there's a good chance that it also won't happen this year. Perhaps we could make that our community project. Another plus of doing that is that I've already made all of the music for it (but that doesn't mean musicians aren't needed at all; y'all have my permission to modify my Christmas orgs as you see fit). My original plan for the mod was that the gameplay/level design would be mostly the same as Cave Story's, but the graphics/storyline would be very different. We may or may not want to keep it that way.

Anyway, let the ideas fly!

 

You haven't made anything out of this project yet, just more and more words.
This project is still at point 1, and unless you or someone does something, instead of just talking about it, it'll stay there.
Arguing about how someone's trying to bring it down is a silly point when there's nothing to there to bring down, in the first place.

Mm... my "made thing" was more pointed out at the first set up. You are right though, it's just words. Imo something which could end up in something bigger, I guess that's why I used them words like "Bring down" and the such. You are right prolly, my bad.

Actually, they probably went down just like this, where people just argued and argued about the whole thing, and never actually got anything done. {Or even started}
Those "morons" you're talking about are the ones who think words mean progress.

Whenever you're working with more people, words are allways necessary, and thus allways progress. Even this simple discussion is already a progress since it's an exchange of thoughts, you can not work or discuss with someone if you don't know what the other one wants, or is going to.

I think you need to think a bit more before you post, yourself.
You've already admitted to being a new member, and admitted to not knowing how the past three projects on these forums went....
DoubleThink is a senior member who's been around for the previous projects, and he knows with experience {and some common sense} about how this will probably turn out...

But in the end people are people, and perhaps he has more experience with the people on this forum, I can not say for sure he has any experience with working in any big projects. Not meant in a bad way really, I don't think many people do that anyways, most people tend to work solo since working together allways means trouble.
I don't know how those projects went, but I have participated with numerous projects myself. On both amateur and semi professional levels. I might be the noob here, but that doesn't mean I don't have any experience at all really.




Yeah, Perhaps I should have done this before, it is rude for a newcomer to hop in, and just think he could shout things like I did. My apologies.
Let me introduce myself first - no matter how you put it, it allways sounds cheesy. - I'm a 21 years old boy from Holland, currently a student on the education Design for Virtual Theater and Games. As the name says, we're being educated in designing Games - it's a bit more complicated than that, but I won't trouble you with that.

For the past 3 years, I have been educated in projects on all kinds of scale. From games, to interactive paintings. I won't say I am the master of projects, but I can say I do know the bits of it.
Furthermore, before I started that school, I was already into game/art designing, mostly with people. Sometimes one on one, sometimes with a small group(ofcourse, mostly alone).. Yeah.


No, I don't expect you to honor me or whatever bullcrap. I'm just here to be part of another project(Yes, I have been doing this more on different forums, just popping in to work together on something). I can set up a detailed guide of how and such, even though I don't know how a mod is actually made - Funny things, I even have experience with working on something I don't even know how it is made - I could help out. Even if it's by making simple music files/sound effects.


Anyways enough about that Bull.



@ Christmas: Do you think it'd be done before Christmas? It would be odd realising it in Jan. I think something related to any special time of the year should be avoided.. Once you've got a deadline, you'll get pressure and thus a lot of stress.
Even though it is a nice theme
We could also make a mod for next years Christmas xD



Hehe my idea for the theme.. I dunno why, but I keep thinking back about a mod called Schemo - don't know the maker, but it's awesome - making a completely new style/story using the CSengine. It's a bit more work, but way more awesome then a compilation of mods - you could allways add easter eggs to refer to those mods.
So something completely new... With the style something post modern - is that the right term? I am referring to the world a few 100 years ago, when technology was beginning to rise, but not developed yet - in a fantasy setting. Not fantasy fantasy like orcs roaming the worlds, but it doesn't have to be realistic either.

Could poop out a plot about it, but that would be kinda an overkill yet xD

 

Someone start. Now. That is the only way this will ever work.

 

I have an idea: You make the protagonist a shemale with a bad tit job riding an orange bicycle and the first weapons he gets are a pair of rainbow super soakers that shoot napalm. The weapon energy indicator is taken out in favor of a system where the protagonist's dick gains a pixels' length when he levels up. The game takes place in a city that has been overrun by robot vaginas, the goal being to destroy every one and become a true man. By the way, all enemies' attacks kill you in one hit.

 

No, just no, nononono.

NO

Can't we be serious for once?

 

I'm entirely serious.