What determines the effect of the Red Flowers?

any one else have any better ideas?

Yeah, it's called 'the thread you posted in'.

I always thought that the flowers where not magic at all, but had the a chemical effect on the mimagas, much like how cat nip affects cats... or how alcohol affects humans. Also note that cat nip will not affect humans just as alcohol will not affect cats.

No one said anything about them really being magical, it's already assumed they work chemically.

The red flowers act as a drug for the mimiga who ingests it and also will not affect other species.

Discussed in this thread/common knowledge.

The red flowers must have such a high concentration of the drug that the mimiga are unable to think clearly and become enraged (and usually get killed somehow).

Must have a high concentration of....what....? You lost me a bit, here...
That's just basically what the Red Flowers do to Mimigas.
{Which we can't really explain how or why, fully, simply due to lack of anything to go on}

I do remember the doctor finding a way to make the drug in the flowers to affect humans as well, he must have changed the properties of the flowers somehow (...ill think of something ).

Again, also discussed in this very same thread you apparently neglected to read before posting in....

Maybe you should take a look one last time at the Doctor's speech...

It is this that I have
[B]successfully extracted
and concentrated.[/B]<NOD<CLRYou can see it in the
form of this...<NOD<CLO<FAC0000
<WAI0020<DNP0401<ANP0400:0040:0000<WAI0020
<MS3<FAC0021...Red Crystal.<WAI0030<NOD<CLRAnd unlike the flowers,
this Crystal will affect
humans as well.

It's not a 'Universal Red Flower', it's Red Flowers in a highly concentrated state, high enough to affect even humans, and give the Doctor such powers as being able to take over the Core {Which was severely damaged already} and use it as his new body.

Lurk a bit more.
And welcome to the forums.

 

On the subject of the Red Crystal, I beleive that, since the Doctor created it, while wearing the Demon Crown, he imbued it with some magic(which he controls)?
Possibly he used magic to extract what increases power.

This explains how he can control both Sue and Misery in thier monster states.

 

Counter points

On the subject of the Red Crystal, I beleive that, since the Doctor created it, while wearing the Demon Crown, he imbued it with some magic(which he controls)?

Or, as some think, the Crown is still with him, even after he dissolved.
It is a magical object....

Possibly he used magic to extract what increases power.

Possible, but he is called a Doctor... {And I don't believe it's medical, seeing how some of them, like Sue's mother, talk about "Working with him" after he gained the Crown}
Maybe he used both skills?

 

Isnt there a crystal within the Crown, that, in theory, could hold all the power, which now oscillates with his cells?

Undestandably, this may contradict somewhat to my other post.

 

I guess it's possible that the Demon Crown's power was transferred to the Doctor himself, who then disintegrated. So those red circles are his super-cells? Much creepier!
I don't know about any crystal inside the crown, unless you're talking about that eyeball. Which is just an eyeball, put there to make it look unnerving. Misery (or Ballos?) has taste.

 

I guess that theory is plausible.

 

Eye is in

Which is just an eyeball, put there to make it look unnerving. Misery (or Ballos?) has taste.

Obviously Ballos.
Have you seen his decor?

 

Re: Eye is in

Hah, most of his attacks consist of eyes as well, but thats going off topic.
Maybe the Creepy Eye holds the power and transfers it to whoever controls the crown and possibly mutates them.

 

Re: Eye is in

It's not important to get caught up in how the Crown does its thing; we can use "the Crown" as a synecdoche and if you'd like to pretend the eye does magical things, then congladuration for your imagination.
Anyway, I think the Demon Crown played a role in creating the Red Crystal, because even if Red Flowers are magic (which I doubt), they can't have very powerful magic or they'd shoot laser beams or glow or something. It's a video game, remember.

 

Re: Just What Is The Core???

At this rate, I'm about to say "With Red Flowers, anything's possible!!"

Believe it!

One you actually didn't say that. And two, pointing out inconsistencies and offering alternate explanations counts as bashing now?
But come to think of it, if Red Crystal (condensed Red Flowers) make Sue float, maybe they do make the Island float as well.

That goes into a whole realm of "The-Red-Flowers-Make-Core-Seeds" that I'm not touching.

1. No objections here.
2. Well, that or make the user not die in higher doses (eg. Doctor)
3. Again, no objections here (only you may want to change "dead" to "undead")
4. I doubt that, but then again, it explains why the Red Flowers were stored in the Sand Zone Storehouse instead of being destroyed.
5. OBJECTION! Enraged Busty Mimiga Sue possesses no psionic powers, even though she was affected by the Crystal. Most likely these were caused by the Crown.
6. Not as badass as Kanpachi, though.

• Good.
• Well... Is being a disembodied power-crazed soul really 'dead'?
• See previous quote.
• See previous quote.
• Nothing is as badass as Kanpachi. Except Chinfish.

New thought!
Suppose the effect of the Red Flowers is like a What-The-Bleep acid trip mixed with good ol' 'roids?
Suppose that the component that crushes the faculties or reason is really a dissociative anestetic that simply (Alice In Wonderland-style) frees the mind from the standard rules set.
What I mean is that it could be an it's-all-in-you-mind/mind over matter/Matrix logic paradigm - Sue floats because she doesn't believe she can't.
Following this train of thought, you could go as far as to say that Mimigas are less sensitive to the chemical component, but more sensitive to the 'roid part - Becoming hulks of muscle with a limited disscociated psyche.
And IIRC Misery offers to test the flowers herself.
Perhaps, if they can affect her (a witch) they could affect humans, but in a different way than Mimigas?

Things -granted- by ingesting Red Flowers (Mimigas):
- Increased mass and strength
- Diminished mental capacity
- Obedience to the Crown Bearer (possibly an unconscious conditioning via subliminal media? Diminished mental capacity would allow for easier manipulation...)
- Seeming tendency to hoard things (Igor with Sue, the Rabil in the Grasstown hut with the missile upgrade - Animalism?)
- Psionic powers (Igors' 'Bubbles')

Things -granted- by the Red Crystal (Humans, witches and trans-Mimigas):
- Psionic powers (The Doctor)
- Frenzied behavior (2nd Doctor, Misery when hit, Sues' wild attacking)
- Levitation* (Mind-over-matter?)
- Expanded consciousness (Defeated Doctor)
- Pack mentality (Sue, The Doctor as the Core and Misery all fight as a team)
- Increased mass and strength (But only following enough 'ego' damage? The mind must be crushed for the body to rage?)

* Could potentially be a side-effect from proximity to the Core. I mean, the thing does manipulate gravity. Perhaps Quote and Curly are too heavy to float?

 

Re: Just What Is The Core???

Sounds good, but that pack mentality you mentioned is probably from the psychic control of the Demon Crown, or whatever's left of it.
Also,

What I mean is that it could be an it's-all-in-you-mind/mind over matter/Matrix logic paradigm - Sue floats because she doesn't believe she can't.

this.
I want to stay away from this metaphysical mind-f*** business in Cave Story, but as long as we're thinking about it, I'd like to point out that the Red Crystal makes this effect much, much stronger then the flowers, because the most magical thing that Igor does is shoot energy balls, which half the creatures in the game can do anyway.

 

Re: Just What Is The Core???

Possible new discovery!

Some believe that Igor wasn't even under the control of the Doctor, but rather was carrying out his last duties through some sort of conditioning his mind underwent as caretaker of the Corridor.

You may be able to keep a peice of your mind to yourself even if you ingest red flowers. Not too sure about the crystal though.

 

Did we overlook something?

That's not really new at all, it's been known for awhile and even discussed a bit in it's own thread.....
{You even quoted it}
Though a bit of the ability to reason may be left after devouring Red Flowers, I doubt you have any left after the Red Crystal.
Of course, can't be too sure of that, because the Demon Crown might've played a role in helping to control Misery and Sue during the second epic-est battle.

But, that just got me thinking me....
When exactly did Jenka lock up the last of the Red Flowers?
Because, how did Igor and that other Enraged Mimiga in Grasstown get ahold of some? {And you meet them before the Doctor gets the Flowers, remember}
Unless, that wasn't the only supply...? {Maybe they stole some before it was locked up?}
Or had they just been Enraged for a very long period of time?
Huh, wonder why I never gave thought to this...

 

Re: Did we overlook something?

But, that just got me thinking me....
When exactly did Jenka lock up the last of the Red Flowers?
Because, how did Igor and that other Enraged Mimiga in Grasstown get ahold of some? {And you meet them before the Doctor gets the Flowers, remember}
Unless, that wasn't the only supply...? {Maybe they stole some before it was locked up?}
Or had they just been Enraged for a very long period of time?

That maybe true.
As for the supposed second stash, the island is a big place, it woulden't be hard for a seed to be left unchecked in some cave left to grow.
How long do mimigas live for, or do the flowers encourage longevity?

 

Darn you Pixel and your plot holes

As for the supposed second stash, the island is a big place, it woulden't be hard for a seed to be left unchecked in some cave left to grow.

Yeah, that's possible, but that also means two witches and a power hungry doctor wielding an artifact of powerful evil somehow missed them...

How long do mimigas live for, or do the flowers encourage longevity?

I forgot where, but we did some estimations off of body size and heart beats or something, but we don't actually know how long they live.
But Flowers increasing the lifespan could be another trait to chalk up to the chart.
Not that we can really prove it with hard evidence, but

At this rate, I'm about to say "With Red Flowers, anything's possible!!"

 

Re: Darn you Pixel and your plot holes

I think we could do an estimate of age by multiplying the average age of a rabbit to the average age of a human then dividing it by 2? don't expect anything, I have horrible maths skills.

 

3 + 4 = 8?

That...doesn't make any sense at all....
Anyways, here's the post I was talking about.
If you really want to try estimating the lifespan, try that instead.
I think we might've agreed on something like 30 years, but again there's no real proof to establish anything concreate.... {Not even that linked post}

 

Returning to the actual topic, what can we associate with red flowers so far?

 

Returning to the actual topic, what can we associate with red flowers so far?

[I just joined this discussion and I didn't read everything so sorry if I reiterate anything already mentioned]
I've always thought of the red flowers being similar to radiation or diseases in zombie movies/games--that is, they cause random, unpredictable effects in their victims and can produce various results. After all, no two mimigas are exactly alike.

 

Limits of the game

After all, no two mimigas are exactly alike.

What about the Mimiga on the Balcony that looks exactly like Igor? Plus, the other Enranged Mimiga that was with him appears more than once, too.
Pixel's reuse of a Boss as a regular enemy aside, it seems to have a generally common influence on the Mimigas.
The only real two exceptions are Toroko and Sue.
Sue, though, was a Human once before, and affected by the Red Crystal, so she doesn't really count.
Toroko had odd traits, but she was rather young, and the only female Enraged Mimiga you ever fight... {Again, not counting Sue because of her special circumstances}

Hmm, would it be possible that the Red Flowers have very special effects depending on Gender? Or was Tokoro just a special case?