So I started a hack.

I don't think you necessarily need to give the health back to the player after resurfacing. In fact, if you do it that way, then it sort of defeats the purpose of having the health decrease as opposed to just drowning them (unless you wanted lower-HP characters to drown quicker).

However, I think we discussed a while ago the possibility making the first damage tick longer, so the player doesn't take damage until using 500 units of air (10 seconds) and then having each subsequent damage occur every 100 units of air (2 seconds). It looks like the system you are using now is 160 units for every tick (3.2 seconds). I don't know if this was an oversight or if you changed your mind (perhaps due to a difficulty in implementation), but it seems like a model along these lines would address the problem.

Other notes: When you enter the room with the two swordy guys, the message doesn't pause when it's finished (and wait for the player to press a button). Naomi says she is "allright," which should be spelled "alright."

As someone has alluded to, the first health box is "missable" in that you can't pick it up later, which is a huge bummer. If it's something that is eventually opened back up later pretty soon (by draining the water, whatever), then it's okay. Still, just to soften the blow a bit, I would recommend making the first health box worth +2 and the second health box worth +3. It's good practice anyway to make power-ups like health boxes more progressive, so the mistake of missing the earlier ones doesn't sting as much.

I've played the first version of your new release, and I also found that watery area to be a bit difficult (although possible). I presume the changes you've made have already addressed that. In fact, if you implement the drowning mechanism I recommended, the level will already become a little easier.

Very nice so far...

 

I'll be trying to look for that item in a few, but right now a comment about the water.

I feel it'd be better with the classic Cave Story timer underwater, except not instant death upon 0 AIR. Like you could have a timer (which you could make shorter so it's not so much time as it's very easy to avoid damage..) that counts down to 0 and at 0 you begin to slowly lose your HP or something. Just my opinion.

Of course this is YOUR hack and I shouldn't tell you how to do it, as it is very nice as it is.

*edit* Wow Maelstrom posted the same idea like right before my as I was posting...

*next edit*
Redownloaded the hack, played through again (found the Damp Cave heart..dunno how I missed that), and still the supposed shiny item does not appear, nor does it give me any indication of it's appearance like you said...soo apparently I screwed somethin up =X

Also, the Rock Cannon is teh sex.

 

I was going to implement Maelstrom's idea after he brought it up, but completely forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me - it's actually easy to do. The idea I'm toying with is to have the timer kick in for, say, a dozen seconds, then once it elapses health would begin to drain in 1-2 second intervals and the timer would vanish until next trip down in ye 'ol watery depths. That should make the tunnel much easier to wade through and less health lost through "drowning.."

Other notes: When you enter the room with the two swordy guys, the message doesn't pause when it's finished (and wait for the player to press a button). Naomi says she is "allright," which should be spelled "alright."

There are probably a few typos in there. I'll fix that one, thanks for bringing it up. As for the room with the two swordy guys, I'll add a NOD. I often skip through messages quickly after a few tests, which can lead to missing these kinds of errors, heh.. (By the way, you can leave that room mid-battle and the defeated swordy guy will remain dead. Not that it's a hard enough fight to warrant the need to go heal up and save midway through, mind you.)

If it's something that is eventually opened back up later pretty soon (by draining the water, whatever), then it's okay. Still, just to soften the blow a bit, I would recommend making the first health box worth +2 and the second health box worth +3.

I hadn't thought of that, heh. You can go back later on, as early as the tunnel in fact, because you'll have enough health to cross the flooded area by that point (though how changes to the drowning system will affect this, I don't know yet.) But yes, if you miss your chance before giving Naomi her air tank back, you'll have to make your way through the factory and part of the tunnel without it.

The second version has an extra tank and some of the other ones give a few units more, though, so missing it isn't that much of an issue anymore. Here's a list as they currently are.

Old Factory: 3 HP (not particularly hard to get, but it's out of the regular way)
Village: 2 HP (very easy to get)
Damp Cave: 3 HP (very easy to get, but somewhat hidden)
Tunnel A: 3 HP (takes a bit of wading through water to get to)
Total: 11 (14 max hp)

Missing the first one leaves you with 11 HP to face the jellies, which isn't too bad with the changes made to that map (ie, the platform in the middle, which often prevents them from flopping on you if you're in the water)

Of course this is YOUR hack and I shouldn't tell you how to do it, as it is very nice as it is.

True, but I'm not the only person playing it, so others' opinions are just as valid as mine. I'm a rather stubborn person but like I said a few posts back, I take constructive criticism to heart, so keep suggestions and comments coming. I've already increased the max health you can get by the end of the demo and made the tunnel and the giant jellyfish battles a bit easier, as well as added a small unintrusive message to draw the player's attention to the item at the end of the tunnel; these were all based on comments received so far.

Of course I'm not saying I'll implant every suggestion and comment, of course, nor that I'll go out of my way to toss in a feature if I never planned for it in the first place and it requires too much work, but I'll certainly give any reasonable idea some consideration.

 

I dunno if you saw it in the last post of mine >_> but the shiny item that's supposed to appear after the jellies still isn't for me.

also, I didn't know there was a life tank in the village...hmmm.

Another thing I rememebered, when you meet back up with Dora in the factory, sometimes when she talks or something, you'll see a different portrait and it'll change quickly to a different one which has text. I dunno if this is intentional or not but I'm guessing not =X

 

I don't think you necessarily need to give the health back to the player after resurfacing. In fact, if you do it that way, then it sort of defeats the purpose of having the health decrease as opposed to just drowning them (unless you wanted lower-HP characters to drown quicker).

However, I think we discussed a while ago the possibility making the first damage tick longer, so the player doesn't take damage until using 500 units of air (10 seconds) and then having each subsequent damage occur every 100 units of air (2 seconds). It looks like the system you are using now is 160 units for every tick (3.2 seconds). I don't know if this was an oversight or if you changed your mind (perhaps due to a difficulty in implementation), but it seems like a model along these lines would address the problem.

Other notes: When you enter the room with the two swordy guys, the message doesn't pause when it's finished (and wait for the player to press a button). Naomi says she is "allright," which should be spelled "alright."

As someone has alluded to, the first health box is "missable" in that you can't pick it up later, which is a huge bummer. If it's something that is eventually opened back up later pretty soon (by draining the water, whatever), then it's okay. Still, just to soften the blow a bit, I would recommend making the first health box worth +2 and the second health box worth +3. It's good practice anyway to make power-ups like health boxes more progressive, so the mistake of missing the earlier ones doesn't sting as much.

I've played the first version of your new release, and I also found that watery area to be a bit difficult (although possible). I presume the changes you've made have already addressed that. In fact, if you implement the drowning mechanism I recommended, the level will already become a little easier.

Very nice so far...

"alright" isin't a word it's "all right"

and the first health container isin't missible I was able to get back through the flooded cave with 11 health surviving narrowly with 1 health then you can recover in one of the bed's in strange dugout

 

The pickup sparkle not appearing happened to someone else too, so I'm starting to think I might be using a reserved flag for it that sometimes gets messed around with. Either that or there's been a flag collision somewhere in the script that I overlooked. I'll fix it tonight.

The lifetank in the village was added after the low max health issues were brought up - it's in the newer executable only. It's minor, but also easily accessible.

The portrait is a problem I sometimes get. Even after a <CLR<CLO<FAC00xx<MSG it does that. I'm still not sure why, but I'll see if I can find a way to fix it (or at least a workaround.) I've started finding script-related code in the executable so maybe I can write a little fix for the MSG functions' occasional odd or unfriendly behavior (text wrapping comes to mind.)

Nice work getting the 1st health container, btw. I managed to go back to that area after getting the jump boots, personally (since you can easily double-jump to the little air pocket.) I don't think it'd be possible to make it through any faster without the boots than what you did.

 

you're supposed to get the high jump boots from grant right?

why did you change it for the demo?

 

you're supposed to get the high jump boots from grant right?

why did you change it for the demo?

Yep. After finding Grant, a small cutscene revealing some stuff about the cult takes places and you receive the boots.

This hasn't been changed in the demo, however since there seems to be a problem with the actual item which allows you to open the door leading to where Grant is, it's not accessible at the moment... The boots are still there, though, and you can load up a profile.dat somewhere in the game with the Booster 0.8 if you want to play around with them.

If I can't figure out the pickup sparkle problem tonight, I'll post a version with access to the little test room I test these things in.

 

so the sparkle in the tunnel entrance is supposed to be the connector?

anyways I got the jump boots by creating an on hit action NPC for event 0605 in the romm with the sword guy

the fact that you have to wait so long before you can make your second jump is annoying maybe you could make it so you can make the second jump at the peak of the first jump?

what do you do with the gold bar? (looks more like oxidized copper)

 

Yeah, the sparkle contains the connector, which can then be used to fix the broken wiring in the room where you got the Ion Device gun.

The jump boots behave nearly identically to Super Metroid's (and all following games in the Metroid series) in that you have to begin falling again in order to jump a second time. Changing this would be difficult because the game's jump routine only has two reference points in the code: when rising and when falling. Furthermore, when already rising, you can't jump again (passing through the regular jump code just plays the jump sound and makes you begin falling later than you normally would - you don't actually jump, and it looks kinda bad.) The game's jump code could be altered, but I'm weary of things like that because other bits of code might rely on it and I could end up introducing rare, hard-to-track-down bugs. I've grown rather fond of there being a possibility of failing the double-jump, though. It's still quite early on in the game, and the boots remain with you until the end once you get them (though the jetpack makes them obsolete once you get it.)

The gold bar is used later on in one of two possible places as part of a trade for another item. Currently there's nothing you can do with it, but later on it will have its uses.

 

the timing isin't as smooth as it is in super metroid I think it's because samus feels heavier when falling down from her first jump than rick does

 

"alright" isin't a word it's "all right"

I do know "isin't" isn't a word.

"Despite the appearance of the form alright in works of such well-known writers as Langston Hughes and James Joyce, the single word spelling has never been accepted as standard. This is peculiar, since similar fusions such as already and altogether have never raised any objections. The difference may lie in the fact that already and altogether became single words back in the Middle Ages, whereas alright has only been around for a little more than a century and was called out by language critics as a misspelling. Consequently, one who uses alright, especially in formal writing, runs the risk that readers may view it as an error or as the willful breaking of convention."

Link

*shrugs*

and the first health container isin't missible I was able to get back through the flooded cave with 11 health surviving narrowly with 1 health then you can recover in one of the bed's in strange dugout

If the drowning mechanics are tweaked, a player will need a little more than that 11 HP to get across, but yes, it should still be possible eventually. But from what I understand with the story, that area is supposed to be drained at some point anyway.

*shrugs again*

 

Odd bug (?): If you go to Grant's house right at the beginning and examine the bookshelves, you'll get NPC dialogues that shouldn't happen until later.

 

Odd bug (?): If you go to Grant's house right at the beginning and examine the bookshelves, you'll get NPC dialogues that shouldn't happen until later.

I just noticed that, now that you mention it. I'm not hiding the NPCs when the flag saying you found Grant is unset, which allows you to talk to them (even though they have sprite ID 0.)

Thanks for pointing it out - it's been fixed.

If the drowning mechanics are tweaked, a player will need a little more than that 11 HP to get across, but yes, it should still be possible eventually. But from what I understand with the story, that area is supposed to be drained at some point anyway.

It's easier to cross once you have the jump boots, as you can cut corners a bit, and also take advantage of the pocket of air (which would reset the oxygen counter back to a dozen seconds.) But yes, you do make a good point. If necessary I'll alter the map to be crossable with 11 hp once the drowning mechanics are altered. Or maybe add some hearts in the pocket of air so you could replenish your health with the jump boots.

Eventually you regain the air tank (in fact, I intend to make some item to make water completely unrestrictive to movement) so even a low-hp run could cross back and get the gold bar in the dugout.

 

Well the Mod is very good (I love the Ion Device!) but I think the bosses are a little bit too hard...

 

but I think the bosses are a little bit too hard...

How so? There's a pattern to all of them.

Cerberus: ...Seriously, if THIS one's giving you a hard time, find some other game to play.

Mutants: Jump jump stab. Jump jump stab. Jump jump stab. The first one is horribly easy because the floor's to your advantage. Shoot shoot jump. Shoot shoot jump. The second one has to be led down (there's a way to get it stuck on two ledges, making beating it easy as heck.)

Devon: Just jump over him and attack him from behind when he attempts to breath on you.

Jellyfishes: Get in the water. It's really easy to beat them from there with the Ion Device. Especially with platforms added - you can literally stand there and shoot them without dying if you have enough health.

 

How's the next release coming?

I kid, I kid.

It is possible Phantom downloaded the "harder" version and hence is suffering a bit.

Regarding the Mutants, maybe you can reduce their attack power so it takes three hits to die as opposed to two. Even if they are relatively easy, two hit kills are a tad annoying.

Regarding Devon, I think you take 5 dmg if you bump into it. Maybe you could lower this to 3, since his breath only does 2 dmg.

Regarding the Jellyfish, sometimes they do 10 (or 15!) damage when they land on you, not just 5. I don't know the particulars, but it seems like there's a double/triple/etc hit going on before the invulnerability kicks in. I have only occasionally seen it happen normally, yet it's happened to me two or three times against the Jellyfish. Of course, maybe they are easy enough now that a skillful player will avoid any damage.

 

I haven't worked much on the next release, frankly. I've invested a lot of time into picking apart the game's code (and found a lot of fun things to mess around with, most of which aren't actually useful though - such as changing the game's speed.) I've been thinking about working on actual stuff lately, though.

You can leave the mutant battle at any time. Granted, not beating one means its health will regenerate when you come back but if you kill one, it stays dead even if you leave. With the extra health pickups, you can live through 3 attacks now, so I won't reduce their attack power.

Devon is supposed to be somewhat difficult, but I wasn't experienced enough with enemy AI at the time of his creation to make him work like I wanted him to. I might rework him in a future version, but I felt the extra damage from bumping into him was justified by the fact he's easy to dodge. And the fireballs are no problem, but very hard to dodge if you get caught in them, hence the low damage. If this feels too unbalanced though, I'll jig around with the numbers a bit.

I've had that problem with the jellyfishes too. The new layout of the room makes it much easier to beat them.



I'll reduce their damage a little bit, nevertheless, as multiple hits seem unevitable. I THINK the game cycles through each entity on the map and applies their damage to Quote before triggering invulnerability, so if two enemies hit you on the same frame you'd take multiple hits. I haven't seen code to back this up yet, but that's what I've observed. If I find anything relevant, I'll try to hack a fix, but it's not one of my priorities at the moment (given that I have no leads.)

 

Did you release a version that has a Health Capsule in the village? I've downloaded what seems to be your most recent version (in the EDITed post), and I can't find such a capsule.

 

I don't think it's there in that version, no.

I'll try to get another version up by this weekend, though. It should include all of the changes discussed so far, as well as new material.