Politics

I really doubt a forum about a 11 year old indie game with a minimal and mostly inactive community is the best place to encourage political discussion, but shit man I'm a washingtonian and we like to talk politics, even if people from everywhere else don't really know or care about the topic.
I'd imagine if discussion ever does happen in this thread most of it's going to be centered around US politics, considering most of the active members are well, from the US; but that shouldn't discourage any discussion for countries outside. Personally I think the US has a lot to learn from some other nations.

Seeing as political discussion has the potential to easily become a heated topic, as per forum rules, I probably shouldn't have to remind people to be civil, but just in case, the reminder's right here.

-This week-
Starting off with a heavy-handed topic but on Friday, October 9th, Chris Harper-Mercer opened fire in a community college in Rosenburg, Oregon, killing 8 students and a teacher, all in a class that he was enrolled in.
The killer, upon entering the room, and according to reports from one of the victim's parents, specifically targeted Christians. His motives were unknown. He owned 14 firearms, all legally acquired, ranging from pistols to a rifle, which were all later found on campus.

This latest mass shooting is one of 994 incidents recorded in America in the past three years, according to the Guardian., and has since sparked new discussions about gun control and gun safety.

Full disclaimer:
If you couldn't tell from the information about the shooting above, I have liberal political bias. I'm pro-gun control and may not have included all the facts reported on the incident. It was a breif summary, but regardless, there may be information out there that goes against the argument I'm about to make.

I've been for gun regulation/restriction ever since I knew what the concept was. As it stands, I think America is far too leniant when it comes to gun control, and it's far too easy for guns to fall into the hands of people unsuited to weild them. Guns aren't like knives or cars, in the same sense that restricitng the availability of one is like the other. Cars or knives aren't created with the sole purpose in mind of killing or hurting someone or something. Unlike firearms, they're either integral or useful in the everyday lives of people, and their primary use isn't to inflict harm onto another being. Guns are efficient. They make killing or hurting people exponentially easier than by most other means, and that's what makes them so dangerous. It should be worth noting that I am not pro gun-bans, just pro restrictions. Banning the use of firearms altogether, similar to how Australia did in the 90's might not be the best course of action, given the presence of other, underlying problems, like mental health of the people who cause these shootings.

So, for anyone willing to give their input on the discussion, what's your stance on gun control? Are you pro gun-control or pro gun-enforcment? What do you think should change to prevent tragedies like this from happening as frequently, or, in an optimal case, preventing them from happening at all?

 

I think we need to get rid of religion and improve mental health. More gun control might help too.

 

Since it wasn't mentioned in the original post the guy who shot up that school in Oregon (presumably) made a thread on 4Chan's /r9k/ board a day before the shooting. (NSFW for language I guess)

Spoiler

 

At present, it is not clear whether or not that thread was made by the shooter. Also, getting rid of 4chan would be good.

 

It would be for the best if firearms at least will only be handed to people who are at least capable of using one for justified means like self-defense in some cases, and don't shoot people in the head for no seemingly good reason. People who can handle guns should also know to keep it out of reach for childeren, as those love guns. One of the reasons I'm for gun control is just because I don't want to have the looming feeling that someone can blow my head since everybody is allowed to have one.
If guns would be freely allowed here in Europe, I would be sure someone would just run to a migrant camp and start shooting at everybody.

Seriously though, the massive migration thing going on in Europe is really getting out of hand. I forgot where they came from and why they migrate to safer countries in Europe, but it's not like some all-mighty deity came and started destroying their land. I just wonder why the migrants get taken for instead of solving the problem. Instead, the migrants get free homes where we should work years for. I even already heard stories about some migrants starting to think they can do everything here. And most probaly don't know the local language of wherever they flee to.

 

Seriously though, the massive migration thing going on in Europe is really getting out of hand. I forgot where they came from and why they migrate to safer countries in Europe, but it's not like some all-mighty deity came and started destroying their land. I just wonder why the migrants get taken for instead of solving the problem. Instead, the migrants get free homes where we should work years for. I even already heard stories about some migrants starting to think they can do everything here. And most probaly don't know the local language of wherever they flee to.

Migrants are good. It's hardly getting out of hand, and you simply appear to perceive the situation as being unfair, when it is in fact not.

 

I think we need to get rid of religion and improve mental health.

while its not for everybody, some religious practice is often something that actually helps people with mental health. The only problem is when its use to harm or impede others instead of help. of which I'm aware happens a lot. However, many churches donate to those with less fortune and try to help the struggling and that isn't reported as often as it should

I spoke with a friend on gun control today, and my opinion is this: people should have the right to carry reasonable fire arms if they: are mentally sound enough, know how to use them, don't leave them in plain sight, are responsible with them.

 

This all wouldn't have happened if op had a gun

 

Get rid of religion? The hell is that supposed to mean? Do you mean separation of church (or any religion) and state (agreeable) or outright censorship (literally evil)?
Also, get rid of 4chan? Jesus Christ, this guy doesn't even want net neutrality, I guess. More censorship, woo!

 

If I had to take a bet, I'd say that the largest barrier to reforming gun laws is not a clash of ideals (despire how... erm... 'enthusiastic' many owners are) but the same thing that strangles just about every change in the glorious US of A, i.e. lobbyists constantly pushing for preferable treatment. The firearms industry wants to keep pulling hefty profits and shop owners want to be able to sell their guns easily. Cultural paranoia is one thing but trying to step on the toes of the aristocracy usually mean decades of struggle for little change, at best. Despite that, I do get the impression that attitudes are starting to change a little, at least of the variety of "wow this is really happening way too often we should probably do something about it". Not having them around hasn't exactly brought the country to its knees, either (I'm in Australia for any who don't know).

Migrants are good. It's hardly getting out of hand, and you simply appear to perceive the situation as being unfair, when it is in fact not.

Yeeaah not that simple, immigration these days is a godawful complicated mess of how to fit people with few relevant skills into economies that are often already struggling to support the people they have. I don't really know how we even manage it here and we have more space than just about anywhere.

 

There are two meanings that I generally associate with religion: actual belief and organized religion. Organized religion can become an issue, and mindless followers generally aren't a good thing (note that I'm not implying this is how all religions function, but it does happen). If you wanted to limit organized religion I can see the reasoning behind that, though that does still seem a little totalitarian for my tastes.
Actual belief is important, however. In fact, you'd probably be doing more harm than good for a lot of people's mental states by blocking out someone's spiritual beliefs.

I'm not an expert on this though. Please correct me if I've said something inaccurate or used an inappropriate term.

 

There are two meanings that I generally associate with religion: actual belief and organized religion. Organized religion can become an issue, and mindless followers generally aren't a good thing (note that I'm not implying this is how all religions function, but it does happen). If you wanted to limit organized religion I can see the reasoning behind that, though that does still seem a little totalitarian for my tastes.
Actual belief is important, however. In fact, you'd probably be doing more harm than good for a lot of people's mental states by blocking out someone's spiritual beliefs.

I totally agree with this - the Soviets actually outlawed religion (which certainly didn't help). And while religion is really helpful for some people and it's used as a guide (sorry for poor choice of words, I'm not religious) it also has the downside that some not all people are hateful (and sometimes violet) against the people who don't follow their specific religion.

It would be for the best if firearms at least will only be handed to people who are at least capable of using one for justified means like self-defense in some cases, and don't shoot people in the head for no seemingly good reason.

I'm totally pro gun control because it's become a serious issue, but the issue is that you can't really tell if someone is going to use the gun they got as a murder weapon, since a lot of the shooters get their weapons legally, then use them illegally.

 

...it also has the downside that some not all people are hateful (and sometimes violet) against the people who don't follow their specific religion.

Everything would be peachy if that wasn't a problem - the same thing also applies to atheism.

 

Everything would be peachy if that wasn't a problem - the same thing also applies to atheism.

True, that happens as well. The world doesn't have true religious tolerance as of yet. I don't know that it ever will either though.

 

Get rid of religion? The hell is that supposed to mean? Do you mean separation of church (or any religion) and state (agreeable) or outright censorship (literally evil)?
Also, get rid of 4chan? Jesus Christ, this guy doesn't even want net neutrality, I guess. More censorship, woo!

Google has removed 8chan completely from its search results at least once, that's not much different from actually getting rid of a site.
I didn't see many people complain when that happened, in fact some people seemed happy about it.
Megaupload was taken offline for breaking the law essentially, so I don't see why the same couldn't happen with 4chan.
I actually think 8chan has a better community than 4chan, 4chan has just descended into complete rubbish.

Regarding religion, from the rules of this forum: "Don't attack people over their religion or lack thereof and please refrain from trying to push your religion onto others."
We still support religion even though it is entirely flawed. It encourages irrationality, and increases the divides between individuals in society.
Obviously censorship isn't the right way to go. We need to encourage people to think for themselves and spread atheism.

 

Google has removed 8chan completely from its search results at least once, that's not much different from actually getting rid of a site.

No, actually, it is different

 

Regarding religion, from the rules of this forum: "Don't attack people over their religion or lack thereof and please refrain from trying to push your religion onto others."

We need to [...] spread atheism.

good job being a politician

 

Obviously censorship isn't the right way to go.
Also 4chan should be deleted.

/me tips upvote

 

Google has removed 8chan completely from its search results at least once, that's not much different from actually getting rid of a site.
I didn't see many people complain when that happened, in fact some people seemed happy about it.
Megaupload was taken offline for breaking the law essentially, so I don't see why the same couldn't happen with 4chan.
I actually think 8chan has a better community than 4chan, 4chan has just descended into complete rubbish.

(1) websites like those are home to certain kinds of people, and if you don't like its community then don't be a part of it
(2) the makers of download sites aren't usually the ones who break laws, tats done by users who abuse the system and are able to because web regulation isn't all that great, and no one wants S.O.P.A. or zombie S.O.P.A. ever again.

We need to encourage people to think for themselves and spread atheism.

Atheism is not something you spread, its supposed to be a choice people make on their own. many religious people I know are very open minded and are very nice and respectful people

 

Google has removed 8chan completely from its search results at least once, that's not much different from actually getting rid of a site.
We still support religion even though it is entirely flawed. It encourages irrationality, and increases the divides between individuals in society.
Obviously censorship isn't the right way to go. We need to encourage people to think for themselves and spread atheism.

There is a big difference between removing 8chan from searches and from removing the site completely. People who know about the site can still access it very easily, and people who don't know about it can learn about it and at some point access it. Removing the site stops everyone from getting to it. Having the site still up doesn't cause issues or anything - people who don't like it don't have to visit it.
Also, even as an atheist, I don't really agree with that completely. Yes, it can create divides, but it doesn't always do that, and most people are still friendly to people with contrasting beliefs. I hate when people start making others follow their beliefs, because it honestly shouldn't matter what someone else believes.