Jenka's Nightmare - Done. *mic drop* [3.0.1.0]

Oct 14, 2014 at 11:38 PM
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Taken from the website:

=======================
About "New Game Plus"
=======================
"New Game Plus", or its short-form, "NG+", is similar to such a system used in a few older RPGs and the like. In Jenka's Nightmare's case, it is used to transfer data from your run of the original Cave Story to add to the events and challenge in Jenka's Nightmare.
To preform NG+, save your game in the Prefab House immediately before the Sacred Grounds in the original Cave Story. Then, copy the "Profile.dat" into the same folder as Jenka's Nightmare, and choose 'Load' when you next run the game. You will be in the same Prefab House as the original game, stripped of several old, unused items. Fall down the hole as you normally would to challenge Hell, and the game will proceed as normal, sending you to the introduction as if you had started a new game.
Your NG+ experience relies entirely on the weapons, health upgrades, and a few other items you possessed when saving in the Prefab House. Every weapon you possessed will turn into a 'capsule' in your inventory that an NPC later in Jenka's Nightmare will open for you. This capsule will not necessarily contain a weapon or item related to the weapon it symbolizes.
Health upgrades work in a possessive fashion. Any upgrades you got in the original game will be transferred with the following formula:
1 + [Number of Health Capsules you found]
There are 11 capsules in the original Cave Story, so collecting them all will yeild a total of 12 health upon starting the game, as opposed to the 6 you start with normally. Alternatively, if you miss any capsule in the original game, it will return in Jenka's Nightmare somewhere on the island for you to collect, offering a much greater maximum health total than collecting them in the original would - at the cost of possibly starting with less than 6 hitpoints, of course.
Finally, your relationship with the Hermit Gunsmith will differ depending on what weapon you had in your NG+ profile. Did you get the Spur? Or has the Gunsmith grown cold and untrusting?

With that said, I believe that there are no longer Blade, Nemesis, or Fireball capsules, due to the former 2's functions no longer being necessary and the latter because... Actually, Idk why. But there never was any. Quite a few pages back, I did an extensive post on save modding for capsules.

I don't recall if the removal of those capsules are the only change. Not only is my memory bad, but Zarrot hasn't updated the website for the latest version, since it was such an overhaul. This is the best I can do, mushroom.
 
Oct 14, 2014 at 11:42 PM
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Life Capsules:
Whichever capsules you get gives +1 life from 1 HP. There are 11 life capsules in the original game, so you can start the game with 12 HP if you get them all, or 1 HP if you collect none of them.
Any capsule you didn't collect shows up somewhere in Jenka's Nightmare too, and will yield the same-as-before-minus-one health.

Weapons:
Polar Star => Turbocharge
Missile Launcher => 30 Missiles
Super Missile => 10 Missiles
Snake => Infinite ammo Snake
Machine Gun => More Machine Gun ammo
Bubbler => More Bubbler ammo
Spur => Life Capsule (varies between +4 and +5, depending on if you did 12HP or 1HP)

Little Man:
Rescue him to get the nemesis in JN. Or you can keep him in your pocket for some silly conversations until you can return him home.
 
Oct 15, 2014 at 5:25 PM
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My addition/words on the previous post:

Ah, yes. Completely forgot about the Little Man. I personally recommend keeping him and skipping the Nemesis in Cave Story, because as Zarrot said, the conversations are pretty funny. Yeah, as long as you pick him up in Cave Story and visit his house in JN, you get the Nemesis. Plus, I only use the Nemesis on Ballos's first form and the Heavy Press, and you don't have to go to the Sacred Grounds to do the NG+ deal. In previous versions, to get the Nemesis, you had to pick him up in CS, keep him, and then visit his house in JN. If you return him in CS, you got a shitty Nemesis knockoff called Mjolnir that was basically the Nemesis with ammo. That was what the Nemesis Capsule was for, btw, an ammo increase. Since the Mjolnir was removed, the Nemesis capsule was removed. The Arms Barrier was originally obtained from the Blade Capsule. This was stupid, so the Arms Barrier was moved somewhere else so that even people not playing NG+ can get it, and the Blade Capsule was removed. Regardless, you can still hold 5 capsules in your inventory via save editing the Prefab profile. The PS/Spur and ML/SML are either or, but the other 3 are good all the time.

Pretty much, it lets you play an easy or a hard game depending on how you played the original, which is neat.
 
Oct 17, 2014 at 3:12 AM
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After about a month of inactivity, I am back.

Before the next version you release, the Bubbler description is inconsistent. "Found in the puddle in the Labyrinth" is the cause. I found it in Pipeworks S. Since 2.0.0.0 and 2.1.0.0.

Anymore issues I find will have this post edited and they will be placed below...
 
Oct 18, 2014 at 8:56 PM
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To be fair you can find the Bubbler a lot of places now, so I should probably remove that part of the description entirely.


Update 2.1.1.0

- Spur takes longer to charge again, the same as it was in 1.0.0.0 etc. (64/128/192)
- Fixed the Bubbler and Whimsical Star descriptions.
- Added a means of knowing which pillar in Grasstown the spikes are under
- Added a skipflag to the longest conversation in the game
- Fixed a spike at the top of the chimney facing the wrong direction
- Fixed a small bunch of cut-off text issues
- Fixed the wrong music track playing when leaving the Core into Revolutionarium
- Fixed a minor bug in the regular credits (causing text-display noise)
 
Oct 19, 2014 at 8:52 PM
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Look at the Edit Date below the post and note the changes and additions below.

I now find an issue for the Magic Journal not updating after going deeper into the Sanctuary.
***Picture attachment removed to recover space***
The H/V Trigger sits directly on NO NPC and in this situation it will not spread out into a triggering line. Coordinates 30, 20. To fix: Try moving two blocks down. As long as they don't hit the red boxes, the triggering line will spread out wider.

Also, Flag 70. It is activated when you talk to Cthulhu before you fall deep into the Sanctuary, but it also allows Little Man to remind himself of the Graveyard, Monsters and Pignons. You're going to need to assign the flagjump to 361 for Little Man's dialog. This way, Little Man will do this properly after you fall deeper.

Speaking of Pignons...



Do ya really think you can take on
all five of us at once?
There is now four Pignons at the hideout. Fix the text in the script.


● ● ●

Grasstown Cthulhu event #0340, please change the itemjump from Whimsical Star (0016) to Arms Barrier (0017) because the chest at the freefall contains Arms Barrier. Change the dialog on event #0343 and the <GIT to use 1017.


● ● ●

Flag 0203 concern: If the Whimsical Star is ignored, it can later be collected and the Gaudska-teers could be fought by

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

Curly Brace.

The dialog from the boss says that they already know

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

Quote

and is inconsistent. To fix: Use the 343 flagjump to another event with different dialog OR prevent

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

Curly Brace

from getting the Whimsical Star by clearing flag 203 after

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

the Doctor threatens the island!




● ● ●

Nemesis Description: There is no such word as "Veterain". Change it to "Veteran".
 
Oct 21, 2014 at 11:29 PM
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Spur takes longer to charge, eh? Oh well, that's what the Turbocharge is for.
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 12:03 AM
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Technically it just takes the same length to charge as I originally gave it, which I feel is more appropriate for when you get it. It's still exceptionally useful, but not so much that you stop using every other weapon in your arsenal entirely.

Machine Gun might be too powerful now, though. On the one hand, it is the last weapon you get, and needs at least a little bit of *oomph* to make it competitive. On the other hand, my last playthrough (2.1.0.0 with my new SNES USB controller, to test it out) I pretty much never used any weapon except the Machine Gun, so I'm iffy in that regard.

Currently it's damage output is 4/6/8, Original MG was 2/4/6. Maybe I should compromise and put it at 3/5/7? Or would everyone's OCD kick in at seeing a weapon do 7 damage, and someone will flip a table at me?
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 10:11 PM
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Ok. Does anyone else besides me despise the ending for Jenka's Nightmare? I honestly thought that the mod was fantastic,(although I did die a small bit inside when I saw that the flame puzzle had been changed.) But I don't like the ending one bit. The thing about the doctor coming back and a second sacred grounds was okay to me, but when Curly took the spotlight, I felt like I took a bullet to the chest. In the Original Cave Story, Beating Ballos was a team effort. Then this comes along, Curly takes all of Quote's items and other stuff and i'm just sitting here like. WHAT THE HEll.

I spent all my time collecting these items, just for Curly to take them at the last possible moment and save the island with them. Curly just came in last second and saved the day. I kind of like that he did this, because Curly was sort of becoming a useless character since she just sat in the back while Quote did all the work, but still. That's bullcrap. And at the end credits, it Says, "Savior of the Island" under Curly's description. IT'S BUGGING THE HELL OUT OF ME. Quote just takes a backseat. aFHNASdgsnfnalskg. Why couldn't it have been like the original Sacred Grounds. Both quote and curly at the same time. I can't even begin to show how much this pisses me off. Quote was the one who went through the entire game getting prepped to save Jenka and the island helping people out with their problems and stuff, and then when he gets to her, boom. He's possesed. Then Curly comes and beats the doctor, saves the island and jenka and stuff, And Quote is just sitting there like. WTF. I did all the work man! And Curly gets all the credit. I mean like COME ON GUY. It makes me think that Zarrotsu is nothing but a Curly fanboy. No disrespect intended, but this crap is slowly killing me inside. If he changed the ending, like give quote life pot so that he could be healthy and then have it like the original sacred grounds curly on quote's back or vice versa, or labyrinth style with curly running around doing her own thing, that would be cool, and it wouldn't have to change the dialogue between Curly and the doctor, but with Quote's face now and then, and then after beating the doctor, Quote finally says something, (that would be badass btw) and then in the ending credits it says for both of them, The Saviors Of the Island. That would be cool. But since it doesn't have an option like that, it remains my least favorite mod for cave story. and am still waiting for a mod that really feels like the real Cave Story sequel. Take my advice and make an option like that, it would please a lot of people like me and would really boost your credibility. I just feel that both characters should get the same credit. If this option is added it would instantly become my personal favorite mod. But still. I am only one person in a crowd of many. But you should still take my advice. No disrespect intended. An ending can completely corrupt a good game. As seen in mass effect 3.
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 10:36 PM
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BatheinBlood said:
Ok. Does anyone else besides me despise the ending for Jenka's Nightmare? I honestly thought that the mod was fantastic,(although I did die a small bit inside when I saw that the flame puzzle had been changed.) But I don't like the ending one bit. The thing about the doctor coming back and a second sacred grounds was okay to me, but when Curly took the spotlight, I felt like I took a bullet to the chest. In the Original Cave Story, Beating Ballos was a team effort. Then this comes along, Curly takes all of Quote's items and other stuff and i'm just sitting here like. WHAT THE HEll.

I spent all my time collecting these items, just for Curly to take them at the last possible moment and save the island with them. Curly just came in last second and saved the day. I kind of like that he did this, because Curly was sort of becoming a useless character since she just sat in the back while Quote did all the work, but still. That's bullcrap. And at the end credits, it Says, "Savior of the Island" under Curly's description. IT'S BUGGING THE HELL OUT OF ME. Quote just takes a backseat. aFHNASdgsnfnalskg. Why couldn't it have been like the original Sacred Grounds. Both quote and curly at the same time. I can't even begin to show how much this pisses me off. Quote was the one who went through the entire game getting prepped to save Jenka and the island helping people out with their problems and stuff, and then when he gets to her, boom. He's possesed. Then Curly comes and beats the doctor, saves the island and jenka and stuff, And Quote is just sitting there like. WTF. I did all the work man! And Curly gets all the credit. I mean like COME ON GUY. It makes me think that Zarrotsu is nothing but a Curly fanboy. No disrespect intended, but this crap is slowly killing me inside. If he changed the ending, like give quote life pot so that he could be healthy and then have it like the original sacred grounds curly on quote's back or vice versa, or labyrinth style with curly running around doing her own thing, that would be cool, and it wouldn't have to change the dialogue between Curly and the doctor, but with Quote's face now and then, and then after beating the doctor, Quote finally says something, (that would be badass btw) and then in the ending credits it says for both of them, The Saviors Of the Island. That would be cool. But since it doesn't have an option like that, it remains my least favorite mod for cave story. and am still waiting for a mod that really feels like the real Cave Story sequel. Take my advice and make an option like that, it would please a lot of people like me and would really boost your credibility. I just feel that both characters should get the same credit. If this option is added it would instantly become my personal favorite mod. But still. I am only one person in a crowd of many. But you should still take my advice. No disrespect intended. An ending can completely corrupt a good game. As seen in mass effect 3.
I don't particularly care that Curly took it up at the end, even though I have no idea how quote dropped all of his material, (what, did he think he was stronger without it?)

I was mostly just pissed that the real villain was just the Doctor again. I mean come on, that's kinda lazy. And it commits a similar crime to Ballos in Cave Story, as in he's barely lampshaded before hand and all the backstory is thrown into the final level. The boss was cool, and Arcadia was alright, but just the Doctor really bothered me.

On a totally unrelated note, I saw a post from ZarroTsu on Cracked just a minute ago, that was a pleasant surprise.

Also unrelated, the machine gun totally breaks the plantation, I don't think it's overpowered (though I think it was buffed in damage or something) but the platforming ability is, in my opinion, why it should be the last weapon, which it is.
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 12:49 AM
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Alright, I was going to write a synopsis of why I did what I did eventually, and I guess that's a pretty good prompt to start writing one, so here we go. Here is the mega-notspoiler. I do not guarantee satisfaction, and I've messed with emotions on either side well enough without an essay dictating why, so read it at your own peril.

1) Jetlag off of JNR, and the rewrites that follow

I mean no offense to Doors about this, if he takes any, but JNR is bad in its absurdity, far more than its mapping or strange choices in final bosses.

Many of you probably know my first post back here after about 5 years since I quit (after a rather childish dispute over Eternal Chaos, but that's neither here nor there) was a rather large shitpost/review of the changes presented in JNR. Perhaps it wasn't terribly mature of me to make that post either, but the ensuing argument sparked a nice 'let's see you do better', and the mod that followed. It gave me motivation to work on it, and eventually finish it.

So, to first explain my process and motivation, I must put forth an effort to explain what I feel JNR did inherently wrong. Again, no offense intended to Doors of this.

The best way I can describe it is "Anime". There is a very distinct "Anime" feel to JNR's given ending. It's difficult to describe exactly what this means, but the best I can give is 'a lot of reasonless reasons'. I'll admit shmitz is probably more at fault of this than Doors might be since he set the plot up to this effect; Genesis and Oblivion are things Jenka sort of just made {because ???}, and they were fulfilling their namesake in destroying and reconstructing the island, again, {because ???}. There really wasn't a lot to go from there in terms of writing an ending. There are a lot of reasons or resolutions you could come to, and I decided on the chosen for a very simple, but powerful one:


2) Explain goddamn everything

The biggest cure-all for "Anime", or better put as 'a lot of reasonless reasons', is to give a sufficient explanation for as much as you can in the plot.

The biggest questions lingering were as follows:

a) Why was Jenka unconscious?

b) Why was Jenka's magic destroying the island she cared about?

c) If Jenka was so intent on destroying the island, why were Quote, Curly, Balrog, and Sue brought back to the island?


These questions I added to be posed by Booster and Misery in THE LONGEST CUTSCENE EVERTM, and adding these questions into the mod itself makes the player ask these questions as well.

While I can't vouch for shmitz or his intent without him popping by to answer questions (He won't answer my tweets), I imagine his original idea was one of nostalgia, memories, those kinds of things. Jenka brought those familiar to the island (Wait, when did she meet or know about Sue at all?) to combat some sort of threat, or do some sort of thing. And maybe she created that thing for them to do as well. Maybe it was just some dream she was legitimately having, and it began effecting reality for some sort of Anime reason.

But the biggest factor is this: d) What's to stop these events from occurring again in the future, ad infinitum?

So there had to be a reason for the 'whys', and the best one I could possibly think of without throwing in bigger, meaner, more omnipotent villains than Ballos (or Ballos, which would have been worse), is simply The Doctor. All factors and reasons I feel set up a very solid revenge plot. A very dramatic, over-the-top, and ridiculously complex one, but we're talking about a giant nerd with a PHD and evil Redflower crystal powers. It isn't as big a stretch as a purple mirror demon was.


3) Explain why the things explained are explainable

You can probably tell by this heading that I took things way too seriously, and way too logically in piecing the mod together. Maybe that's reason enough to hate some of the things. Let me explain.

a) How the hell could the Doctor be powerful enough, or even survive for that matter?

Foremost is partly answered in the game itself. Jenka was indeed mourning Ballos' death, and there are many griefs and sorrows one feels when mourning. Whether Jenka was once human, or mortal, or whatever the devil, is a story that could be covered by someone else, and I'm sure would make a decent enough mod idea if someone competent tackled it. But I assume her emotions align with what humans would go through. I've been depressed, and I've lost loved ones. I've seen people mourn, and I've seen the pain it causes. It isn't to be taken lightly.

Maybe The Doctor wasn't powerful enough to truly beat Jenka in a fight, magic or otherwise (SOMEONE DRAW A PICTURE OF THE DOCTOR GETTING HIT BY A CANE BY JENKA PLEASE OH MY GOD), but Jenka wasn't really feeling it that day.

So, how could he have survived? There are many factors to consider here. There's no evidence of the limits of the Red Crystal he put together. While the Demon Crown was magic given by Ballos, the Red Crystal Doctor seemed powerful enough on his own to house the body of the Undead Core without so much as a breath of effort. Moreover, we never see the Red Crystal truly shatter or be destroyed. It seems to be absorbed by Sue to turn her into the Mimiga monster version of herself in the final boss fight, but after the fight is over we see her right as rain again without so much as a scratch on her.

I think it's more incredible that Sue survived than anything.

b) What the fuck even was his revenge plot, oh my god

It's simple, really. Not outstanding or anything that would get him an A+ on a paper about it, but effective enough for a video game plot.

Lure everyone back to the island, collapse it onto them, usurp island as interplanetary throne, take over the world, ???, Profit.

(Those last ones aren't really explained at all, but what else do you do after steps one and two?)

Quote, Curly, and Balrog would be the easy ones. As shown in the intro, they live within viewing distance of the island, and probably aren't terribly far away from it. I imagine Jenka's magic has a range to it, and let's just pretend they were within that range. Ask shmitz for further details on how Teleportation magic works.

For Sue, the best linked consideration for her is Misery's magic being put at play. It's entirely true that Itoh was also within that same vice, but honestly who gives a crap about Itoh I mean seriously.

Once Sue was abducted, it was only a matter of time before the gears would grind, and transport off the island would be sent. Momorin was almost guaranteed to be there, and Itoh was really a matter of luck, but again, nobody cares about Itoh jesus fuck. (Maybe he and Momorin have a thing going, maybe she's into furry rabbit dudes, I don't know.)

All things come together when these are considered. And that was the Doctor's plan. Genesis and Oblivion were to be the intended apprehenders of Momorin and Itoh, but Quote came in and beat them up. So he had to improvise...


4) Seriously? That last bit with Curly? What are you, president of her fanclub?

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2914689/1/The-Stranger-I-Knew

I leave this here. Take it as you will, treat me as you'd like. But this is a heavy contributor to the idea at present.

For those of you who refuse to sully your history tab with fanfiction.net, the above is a short re-write of the original CS's default ending. In short, instead of the Red Crystal consuming/being consumed by Sue, it make a b-line for Quote, smashes through his chest, and takes over his body (He then goes on to kill Sue and Misery, which is probably a step too far in that regard). Then Curly comes around, has a fight with her own incompetence as to what classifies the laws of robotics, and finally breaks the Red Crystal, and dies together with Quote in the falling island.

I don't know exactly what it is, but for its flaws, and evidence by JN's ending, I really liked this story.

In JN's case, after The Doctor takes over Quote's body, he leaves all the equipment behind and heads to the Balcony to terrorize everyone. There are subtle hints of this in the dialog; no-one tells you he was using Quote's body, but the people who were up there are rather unhinged and try to avoid talking about it. Itoh, if you speak with him before heading to 'Sand Zone?', lays it on the heaviest, and is effectively... well, Itoh.

Ultimately, a part of me wanted to make the fight with Red Quote to be Curly Brace styled, but I scrapped that idea due to the shape of the arena, and that fight's AI being way too simple to be difficult for that stage of the game. I settled with simply the Misery fight with the red wispy stuff flowing around the room to change the dynamic of the fight a little bit.

As for Quote and giving him a life pot or not, the thought crossed my mind, but a major credit cutscene I wanted was for the Gunsmith to be the one to come along and fix up Quote. If Quote were functional at the time, he wouldn't really require fixing. A technical limitation, however, is Kazuma's Dragon and the available sprites. I had to use one of the ones available for Balrog so his flight off the island in the regular ending would look good, and the mimiga mask version for Curly and Kazuma on the dragon. Sue's 'dangling' sprite was removed so it wouldn't show up in either scene.

At its core, while it would be pretty great to have Quote ride your back with the Nemesis or something, there are too many limits to what I can do. If I'm being perfectly honest, I wanted to add something like that, but Curly's NPC and riding your back are all shared sprites, and even if I put in the needless ASM work, do you really want to trade your Life Pot for the one dungeon in which you need it most?


5) Daisuke? Really? Chivalry is dead, let me tell you.

Honestly, that joke never even crossed my mind as an idea. First I heard of it was Dunc joking around with it when he played the final test version before 1.0.0.0 was released.

If you check the bookshelf in the Prefab house, it explains some pretty important bits. It's the piece of information that points out Daisuke by name as Sue's dad, and sets up the idea that he had been murdered, and the original trip to the island was delayed. It sets up the idea that The Doctor was the murderer, and sets up a very big revelation to the plot that Dunc and Co. seemed to dislike:

The original mission to the island was never for the crown, or its research. Daisuke Sakamoto wanted to retrieve Quote and Curly after having lost communication with them years prior, after the wars on the island came to a close.

The Doctor, for any depressing oh-woe-is-me reasons you want, was called out by Ballos as the next crown bearer, and he murdered Daisuke Sakamoto to cover up the original reason for visiting the island. Whether The Doctor was ever aware of Ballos before, or during his reign with the Demon Crown is up to anyone, but he learns of Ballos eventually, and smugly quotes his famous line before fighting you.

Honestly, if 'Daisuke Sakamoto' is that big a deal, I can change the first name to something else. I just thought it was more ironic, is all.


In conclusion, The Doctor is the villain because, provided the idea that he survived the fight with the Undead Core, and provided a little bit of backstory, it makes the most sense. At least, it does to me.
 
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Oct 23, 2014 at 2:12 AM
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ZarroTsu said:
Alright, I was going to write a synopsis of why I did what I did eventually, and I guess that's a pretty good prompt to start writing one, so here we go. Here is the mega-notspoiler. I do not guarantee satisfaction, and I've messed with emotions on either side well enough without an essay dictating why, so read it at your own peril.

1) Jetlag off of JNR, and the rewrites that follow

I mean no offense to Doors about this, if he takes any, but JNR is bad in its absurdity, far more than its mapping or strange choices in final bosses.

Many of you probably know my first post back here after about 5 years since I quit (after a rather childish dispute over Eternal Chaos, but that's neither here nor there) was a rather large shitpost/review of the changes presented in JNR. Perhaps it wasn't terribly mature of me to make that post either, but the ensuing argument sparked a nice 'let's see you do better', and the mod that followed. It gave me motivation to work on it, and eventually finish it.

So, to first explain my process and motivation, I must put forth an effort to explain what I feel JNR did inherently wrong. Again, no offense intended to Doors of this.

The best way I can describe it is "Anime". There is a very distinct "Anime" feel to JNR's given ending. It's difficult to describe exactly what this means, but the best I can give is 'a lot of reasonless reasons'. I'll admit shmitz is probably more at fault of this than Doors might be since he set the plot up to this effect; Genesis and Oblivion are things Jenka sort of just made {because ???}, and they were fulfilling their namesake in destroying and reconstructing the island, again, {because ???}. There really wasn't a lot to go from there in terms of writing an ending. There are a lot of reasons or resolutions you could come to, and I decided on the chosen for a very simple, but powerful one:


2) Explain goddamn everything

The biggest cure-all for "Anime", or better put as 'a lot of reasonless reasons', is to give a sufficient explanation for as much as you can in the plot.

The biggest questions lingering were as follows:

a) Why was Jenka unconscious?

b) Why was Jenka's magic destroying the island she cared about?

c) If Jenka was so intent on destroying the island, why were Quote, Curly, Balrog, and Sue brought back to the island?


These questions I added to be posed by Booster and Misery in THE LONGEST CUTSCENE EVERTM, and adding these questions into the mod itself makes the player ask these questions as well.

While I can't vouch for shmitz or his intent without him popping by to answer questions (He won't answer my tweets), I imagine his original idea was one of nostalgia, memories, those kinds of things. Jenka brought those familiar to the island (Wait, when did she meet or know about Sue at all?) to combat some sort of threat, or do some sort of thing. And maybe she created that thing for them to do as well. Maybe it was just some dream she was legitimately having, and it began effecting reality for some sort of Anime reason.

But the biggest factor is this: d) What's to stop these events from occurring again in the future, ad infinitum?

So there had to be a reason for the 'whys', and the best one I could possibly think of without throwing in bigger, meaner, more omnipotent villains than Ballos (or Ballos, which would have been worse), is simply The Doctor. All factors and reasons I feel set up a very solid revenge plot. A very dramatic, over-the-top, and ridiculously complex one, but we're talking about a giant nerd with a PHD and evil Redflower crystal powers. It isn't as big a stretch as a purple mirror demon was.


3) Explain why the things explained are explainable

You can probably tell by this heading that I took things way too seriously, and way too logically in piecing the mod together. Maybe that's reason enough to hate some of the things. Let me explain.

a) How the hell could the Doctor be powerful enough, or even survive for that matter?

Foremost is partly answered in the game itself. Jenka was indeed mourning Ballos' death, and there are many griefs and sorrows one feels when mourning. Whether Jenka was once human, or mortal, or whatever the devil, is a story that could be covered by someone else, and I'm sure would make a decent enough mod idea if someone competent tackled it. But I assume her emotions align with what humans would go through. I've been depressed, and I've lost loved ones. I've seen people mourn, and I've seen the pain it causes. It isn't to be taken lightly.

Maybe The Doctor wasn't powerful enough to truly beat Jenka in a fight, magic or otherwise (SOMEONE DRAW A PICTURE OF THE DOCTOR GETTING HIT BY A CANE BY JENKA PLEASE OH MY GOD), but Jenka wasn't really feeling it that day.

So, how could he have survived? There are many factors to consider here. There's no evidence of the limits of the Red Crystal he put together. While the Demon Crown was magic given by Ballos, the Red Crystal Doctor seemed powerful enough on his own to house the body of the Undead Core without so much as a breath of effort. Moreover, we never see the Red Crystal truly shatter or be destroyed. It seems to be absorbed by Sue to turn her into the Mimiga monster version of herself in the final boss fight, but after the fight is over we see her right as rain again without so much as a scratch on her.

I think it's more incredible that Sue survived than anything.

b) What the fuck even was his revenge plot, oh my god

It's simple, really. Not outstanding or anything that would get him an A+ on a paper about it, but effective enough for a video game plot.

Lure everyone back to the island, collapse it onto them, usurp island as interplanetary throne, take over the world, ???, Profit.

(Those last ones aren't really explained at all, but what else do you do after steps one and two?)

Quote, Curly, and Balrog would be the easy ones. As shown in the intro, they live within viewing distance of the island, and probably aren't terribly far away from it. I imagine Jenka's magic has a range to it, and let's just pretend they were within that range. Ask shmitz for further details on how Teleportation magic works.

For Sue, the best linked consideration for her is Misery's magic being put at play. It's entirely true that Itoh was also within that same vice, but honestly who gives a crap about Itoh I mean seriously.

Once Sue was abducted, it was only a matter of time before the gears would grind, and transport off the island would be sent. Momorin was almost guaranteed to be there, and Itoh was really a matter of luck, but again, nobody cares about Itoh jesus fuck. (Maybe he and Momorin have a thing going, maybe she's into furry rabbit dudes, I don't know.)

All things come together when these are considered. And that was the Doctor's plan. Genesis and Oblivion were to be the intended apprehenders of Momorin and Itoh, but Quote came in and beat them up. So he had to improvise...


4) Seriously? That last bit with Curly? What are you, president of her fanclub?

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2914689/1/The-Stranger-I-Knew

I leave this here. Take it as you will, treat me as you'd like. But this is a heavy contributor to the idea at present.

For those of you who refuse to sully your history tab with fanfiction.net, the above is a short re-write of the original CS's default ending. In short, instead of the Red Crystal consuming/being consumed by Sue, it make a b-line for Quote, smashes through his chest, and takes over his body (He then goes on to kill Sue and Misery, which is probably a step too far in that regard). Then Curly comes around, has a fight with her own incompetence as to what classifies the laws of robotics, and finally breaks the Red Crystal, and dies together with Quote in the falling island.

I don't know exactly what it is, but for its flaws, and evidence by JN's ending, I really liked this story.

In JN's case, after The Doctor takes over Quote's body, he leaves all the equipment behind and heads to the Balcony to terrorize everyone. There are subtle hints of this in the dialog; no-one tells you he was using Quote's body, but the people who were up there are rather unhinged and try to avoid talking about it. Itoh, if you speak with him before heading to 'Sand Zone?', lays it on the heaviest, and is effectively... well, Itoh.

Ultimately, a part of me wanted to make the fight with Red Quote to be Curly Brace styled, but I scrapped that idea due to the shape of the arena, and that fight's AI being way too simple to be difficult for that stage of the game. I settled with simply the Misery fight with the red wispy stuff flowing around the room to change the dynamic of the fight a little bit.

As for Quote and giving him a life pot or not, the thought crossed my mind, but a major credit cutscene I wanted was for the Gunsmith to be the one to come along and fix up Quote. If Quote were functional at the time, he wouldn't really require fixing. A technical limitation, however, is Kazuma's Dragon and the available sprites. I had to use one of the ones available for Balrog so his flight off the island in the regular ending would look good, and the mimiga mask version for Curly and Kazuma on the dragon. Sue's 'dangling' sprite was removed so it wouldn't show up in either scene.

At its core, while it would be pretty great to have Quote ride your back with the Nemesis or something, there are too many limits to what I can do. If I'm being perfectly honest, I wanted to add something like that, but Curly's NPC and riding your back are all shared sprites, and even if I put in the needless ASM work, do you really want to trade your Life Pot for the one dungeon in which you need it most?


5) Daisuke? Really? Chivalry is dead, let me tell you.

Honestly, that joke never even crossed my mind as an idea. First I heard of it was Dunc joking around with it when he played the final test version before 1.0.0.0 was released.

If you check the bookshelf in the Prefab house, it explains some pretty important bits. It's the piece of information that points out Daisuke by name as Sue's dad, and sets up the idea that he had been murdered, and the original trip to the island was delayed. It sets up the idea that The Doctor was the murderer, and sets up a very big revelation to the plot that Dunc and Co. seemed to dislike:

The original mission to the island was never for the crown, or its research. Daisuke Sakamoto wanted to retrieve Quote and Curly after having lost communication with them years prior, after the wars on the island came to a close.

The Doctor, for any depressing oh-woe-is-me reasons you want, was called out by Ballos as the next crown bearer, and he murdered Daisuke Sakamoto to cover up the original reason for visiting the island. Whether The Doctor was ever aware of Ballos before, or during his reign with the Demon Crown is up to anyone, but he learns of Ballos eventually, and smugly quotes his famous line before fighting you.

Honestly, if 'Daisuke Sakamoto' is that big a deal, I can change the first name to something else. I just thought it was more ironic, is all.


In conclusion, The Doctor is the villain because, provided the idea that he survived the fight with the Undead Core, and provided a little bit of backstory, it makes the most sense. At least, it does to me.
It sounds good to me. Tbh, I couldn't take that rant seriously because of how dramatic and whiny and bossy it was.

Zarrot took the little bit of lore that Cave Story had and did everything he possibly could with it to make a compelling sequel. In addition, a particular thing about Cave Story modding is that only so many graphics, weapons and AI configurations can be used effectively. Modding this game is hard work and requires a grasp of what you can do with these limitations. To anyone who cannot deal with the decisions Zarrot made with what he had, go make your own damn mod, because I doubt you could do better.

The end product is fantastic, and I look forward to the future.
 
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Oct 23, 2014 at 2:35 AM
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Mistress Nemesis said:
Tbh, I couldn't take that rant seriously because of how dramatic and whiny and bossy it was.
Drama, whine, and boss added for easier reading. Although I'm not entirely sure where they were apparently added.
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 3:03 AM
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I'm really glad to see this. Most people know that yeah, JNR was a pretty shitty mod. Even if we had some rough patches when you first rejoined, I'm glad you could make something that I think stands well on its own. Even if some people don't like some of the things you did, you seemed to work extremely hard to make it great, which is more than I could say.
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 9:10 PM
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ZarroTsu said:
Drama, whine, and boss added for easier reading. Although I'm not entirely sure where they were apparently added.
Just to be clear, I meant Batheinblood's rant. But yeah, your rant all that time ago was pretty nuts too. I'm glad to see that something came of it, because I didn't even realize that was you. The former rant, however, was bashing decisions you made that, unlike the ones Doors made, made sense. JNR was an attempt to finish an unfinished mod, and it came out badly. Your mod was a retread of the original idea using JNR as a nonexample. It came out beautifully, and such a selfish and inarticulate rant makes no sense with regard to all of that.

Doors said:
I'm really glad to see this. Most people know that yeah, JNR was a pretty shitty mod. Even if we had some rough patches when you first rejoined, I'm glad you could make something that I think stands well on its own. Even if some people don't like some of the things you did, you seemed to work extremely hard to make it great, which is more than I could say.
I'm glad to hear you say this. As someone who actually liked your mod, I can say that it was impossible to go back after playing this one. Your mod really wasn't good in retrospect, but I would still personally like to thank you. If it wasn't for your mod, this mod wouldn't exist. Sometimes, true success is built on learning from the failure of others. This mod is a prime example, and I truly respect and thank you for being able to accept your part in this in stride.
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 10:37 PM
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The Doctor thing makes much more sense now, and I realize that it would be pretty hard to make a new villain in the first place. It would basically have to be:
-A new character never-before-introduced, which could work, but a new villain means having to set them up and make them a part of an entirely new story, and most likely reusing sprites, and as you mentioned the omnipotence thing. Personally I wanna see a mod where someone implements one of the past crown wearers who was the bigger bad all along (kind of like Handsome Jack).
-An existing character who, at least after the death of the doctor, would probably be very suddenly evil, and jarring, and out of character... and lots more problems. The only one I could see is maybe like if Misery accidentally absorbed Jenka's power and lost rational thought, but it would have been a pain to change that from what Schmitz set up, and I can tell that that's not even a problem, it doesn't matter.
-The return of The Doctor or Ballos, only one of which really makes any sense.

So yeah, that's just a long way of me saying nice work.
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 2:43 PM
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Update 2.1.2.0

- Machine Gun damage reduced for higher levels (Was 3/6/8, now 3/5/7)

- Removed some No-NPC barriers in Sanctuary to prevent them from blocking an H/V Trigger

- Fixed Little Man dialog using an obsolete flag

- Fixed Bro Pignon saying there were five pignons, instead of four

- Updated Cthulhu dialog in Grasstown to gawk at the correct chest item

- Added additional dialog for the Whimsical Star fight

--------

Despite my saying so before, I decided against adding clarification to the Hell Dialog, regarding Daisuke. Mainly because I can't fit it in anywhere without it sounding forced or stilted.

In the end, "What happened to our father's son?" followed by "Where's Daisuke!?" seems pretty distinctly connected, as ridiculous as it sounds out of context.

And in answer to the question out-of-context, he was busy: Here he is. (27:38)
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 6:52 PM
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Welp, that about fixes everything that I encountered. No need to display a checklist. However...
Leaves only one minor problem regarding gender in Revolutionarium Event #1263:
Guathos, take a breather!
I'll get him this time!
"'em", "it", or "her"? For "her" use 343 jump. Or change "I'll get him this time" to something else.
 
Oct 28, 2014 at 2:11 AM
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Fluff8836 said:
Welp, that about fixes everything that I encountered. No need to display a checklist. However...
Leaves only one minor problem regarding gender in Revolutionarium Event #1263:
"'em", "it", or "her"? For "her" use 343 jump. Or change "I'll get him this time" to something else.

Or just leave it. They don't seem too smart anyhow :rolleyes: jk
 
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