Jun 14, 2011 at 1:15 AM
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You forgot to mention that type fours will use ~ heavily and incorrectly.
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Hey everyone happy Christmas Eve we're aware of what's happened with the source code so to keep this simple absolutely don't post it on the site or use it to make mods with (it's not particularly preferable toward this end anyway) and tread lightly in general until we see how this settles, thanks to all and have a great holiday season -DT
Classifying Furfags - The 5 Type System
- Thread starter Yakkers
- Start date
Jun 28, 2011 at 10:36 AM
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I found this a bit interesting in defining furries, since it doesn't include other personality traits like "how much of a dickhead the person is" in the definitions.
Taken from: http://www.humantruth.info/furry.html
I still don't get furries. The extremists, that is.
4. Types of Furry, from the Insane Psychotic to the Mild Pseudo Furry
Here I attempt to describe some general groupings of furs, although no individual would fit into any category, such is the complex nature of human beings.
4.1. Lifestylers Versus Fanboys
There is a tension between the fanboys and the relative newcomers to furry fandom, the lifestylers.
•Fanboys are comic and artwork fans who are devoted to enjoying, and producing, anthropomorphic artwork. They are similar in character to other fanboys from general science fiction genres, and some of them have a profound knowledge of furry comics, characters, artists and artwork.
•Furry Lifestylers are the social, fun-seeking (often young) furs whose purpose in furrydom is more centered around socializing than in artwork, and whose behaviour is more noticeably furry (including wearing ears and tails).
Housecons will normally veer towards one division or the other, although conventions are generally large enough that the full canopy of approaches to furry is catered for. The tensions between these two groups at worst lead to schisms within the community, and at best, the two groups simply get along. The lifestylers appreciate the art of the fanboys, whilst the fanboys appreciate the energy of the lifestylers.
4.2. Spiritual Mental Lycanthropy (Mental Shifts)
A person who experiences a mental shift feels that they cease behaving as themselves and instead behave as a particular animal. Native Indians (especially in the more southern tribes) would believe that they allowed an animal spirit to take over their body whilst they were hunting or fighting. It can result in the person behaving with a completely different personality. Rugby players performing a dance before a game are enticing a mental shift. Some football fans hype themselves up to the extent that they undergo a mental shift whilst attending a game. Certain forms of martial art train and entice adherents to perform mental shifts during meditation or training - the phenomenon itself is normal. Lycanthropy (in werewolf films) is normally used to describe a physical change into an animal, but, it can also be used more widely to describe a mental shift.
An article in a philosophy magazine explores the idea of lycanthropy, and I can't do better than to quote it:
“The [psychological] definition of lycanthropy refers to a clinical psychopathology in which a psychiatric patient believes him/herself to be an animal - again most commonly a wolf - and behaves accordingly. This lycanthropy is most often described as a set of delusional experiences and beliefs which is not in and of itself a specific mental disorder. [...] The symptoms can be either short-lived and sporadic, or stable and persistent. [...] Symptoms are most often found in patients with schizophrenia, and/or affective disorders.”
Chris Durante in Philosophy Now (2006)4
4.3. Holistic Species Lycanthropy
This is very similar to Spiritual Mental Lycanthropy except that the person does not feel that a single animal will takes hold; but rather that they mentally become a member of that species whilst remaining themselves. An example would be that a person feels he mentally changes into an animal of a particular species; that he becomes tuned in to an entire species and his perception changes accordingly.
Some forms of martial arts, noticeably the various forms of Silat in Indonesia, train a person to mentally assume the mindset of particular species during combat training and meditation. Kung Fu is one of the more famous anthropomorphic body arts; the five forms of Kung Fu are all based on the persona of particular animals; although not as extreme as the animal worship found in Silat, the assumption is still there that people can tune in to a holistic, ever-present animal mindset that is not related to our own genus.
4.4. Inspiration Species
The image, style and personality of a particular species cause particular feelings of empathy and inspiration. In the way that Buddhists strive to be like Buddha, an enlightened being, many furries are so inspired and feel empathy towards a particular species that they adopt it as a label. Many people feel that they act like, or are comparable to, a particular species (or hybrid or fictional species) and so choose to represent themselves as a member of that species within the Furry subculture.
4.5. Unknown or Psychological Reasons
Most furries do not know, exactly, the reasons that make them associate themselves with an animal. Most neophytes to the scene are simply on to something that feels comforting, or allows them to express themselves without the dogma of restrictive 'normal' society. But many acolyte furs also remain unsure as to 'why they do it'.
Here I attempt to describe some general groupings of furs, although no individual would fit into any category, such is the complex nature of human beings.
4.1. Lifestylers Versus Fanboys
There is a tension between the fanboys and the relative newcomers to furry fandom, the lifestylers.
•Fanboys are comic and artwork fans who are devoted to enjoying, and producing, anthropomorphic artwork. They are similar in character to other fanboys from general science fiction genres, and some of them have a profound knowledge of furry comics, characters, artists and artwork.
•Furry Lifestylers are the social, fun-seeking (often young) furs whose purpose in furrydom is more centered around socializing than in artwork, and whose behaviour is more noticeably furry (including wearing ears and tails).
Housecons will normally veer towards one division or the other, although conventions are generally large enough that the full canopy of approaches to furry is catered for. The tensions between these two groups at worst lead to schisms within the community, and at best, the two groups simply get along. The lifestylers appreciate the art of the fanboys, whilst the fanboys appreciate the energy of the lifestylers.
4.2. Spiritual Mental Lycanthropy (Mental Shifts)
A person who experiences a mental shift feels that they cease behaving as themselves and instead behave as a particular animal. Native Indians (especially in the more southern tribes) would believe that they allowed an animal spirit to take over their body whilst they were hunting or fighting. It can result in the person behaving with a completely different personality. Rugby players performing a dance before a game are enticing a mental shift. Some football fans hype themselves up to the extent that they undergo a mental shift whilst attending a game. Certain forms of martial art train and entice adherents to perform mental shifts during meditation or training - the phenomenon itself is normal. Lycanthropy (in werewolf films) is normally used to describe a physical change into an animal, but, it can also be used more widely to describe a mental shift.
An article in a philosophy magazine explores the idea of lycanthropy, and I can't do better than to quote it:
“The [psychological] definition of lycanthropy refers to a clinical psychopathology in which a psychiatric patient believes him/herself to be an animal - again most commonly a wolf - and behaves accordingly. This lycanthropy is most often described as a set of delusional experiences and beliefs which is not in and of itself a specific mental disorder. [...] The symptoms can be either short-lived and sporadic, or stable and persistent. [...] Symptoms are most often found in patients with schizophrenia, and/or affective disorders.”
Chris Durante in Philosophy Now (2006)4
4.3. Holistic Species Lycanthropy
This is very similar to Spiritual Mental Lycanthropy except that the person does not feel that a single animal will takes hold; but rather that they mentally become a member of that species whilst remaining themselves. An example would be that a person feels he mentally changes into an animal of a particular species; that he becomes tuned in to an entire species and his perception changes accordingly.
Some forms of martial arts, noticeably the various forms of Silat in Indonesia, train a person to mentally assume the mindset of particular species during combat training and meditation. Kung Fu is one of the more famous anthropomorphic body arts; the five forms of Kung Fu are all based on the persona of particular animals; although not as extreme as the animal worship found in Silat, the assumption is still there that people can tune in to a holistic, ever-present animal mindset that is not related to our own genus.
4.4. Inspiration Species
The image, style and personality of a particular species cause particular feelings of empathy and inspiration. In the way that Buddhists strive to be like Buddha, an enlightened being, many furries are so inspired and feel empathy towards a particular species that they adopt it as a label. Many people feel that they act like, or are comparable to, a particular species (or hybrid or fictional species) and so choose to represent themselves as a member of that species within the Furry subculture.
4.5. Unknown or Psychological Reasons
Most furries do not know, exactly, the reasons that make them associate themselves with an animal. Most neophytes to the scene are simply on to something that feels comforting, or allows them to express themselves without the dogma of restrictive 'normal' society. But many acolyte furs also remain unsure as to 'why they do it'.
I still don't get furries. The extremists, that is.
Jun 28, 2011 at 1:44 PM
Join Date: Aug 28, 2009
Location: The Purple Zone
Posts: 5998
Pronouns: he/him
That was an interesting article. I also read the text linked at the bottom (http://www.humantruth.info/hwif.html) which gave its own explaination of what is a furry
Both of these articles are really old though. The primary being from 99' (which I still feel uneasy remembering is 11 years ago) and the former (Dr Pepper) analysis being from 1989 (which was before I was born so that's fine to call old as hell). Are they still relevant? Yakkers?
I was actually wondering just last night about how long 'furry' has been recognized as a distinct social group. I can't imagine it being such a big thing before the internet made it easy for people to find and communicate with each other without fear of derision. Or even to know that other furries exist: Example in point taken from the comments section of the article:
Furry Fandom Observed
(credited to Dr Pepper)
This is an attempt to concisely explain furrydom to the curious. I am not myself a member of this group, this is what I have been told, have heard and read, or just observed in action. This is by no means complete but it is a start towards understanding.
In the simplest terms furry fandom is the admiration of creatures that have both human and animal traits. Since such do not actually exist, this is considered a subgenre of science fiction/fantasy fandom.
One aspect of this is simply liking so called "funny animal" cartoons and comics, such as Bugs Bunny, Tom & Jerry, et al. Such creatures are not conceived with much logic, and it is their human references that are important, the animal shape is more for humor than anything else.
Then there is the envy of certain traits observed in animals. Such traits include speed, strength, grace, beauty, cunning and of course possession of fur. Most of the animals people are attracted to are mammals, hence the term "furry," but nothing is excluded.
This leads to the desire to put oneself in the animal's place so as to be able to really experience what it is like to be so gifted.
But most people want to have this experience with human type sapience. This leads to the postulation of various kinds of creatures.
Real animals that somehow can think and talk. A lot of folklore and mythology is mined for source material for these. Of more recent vintage is the idea of using biological or digital technology to augment ordinary creatures.
Sapient analogs of certain animals. These include parallel evolution on other worlds, human genetic intervention, and additional evolution, say due to massive radiation.
Gene spliced creatures made to order. These can range from customized humans to totally new beings made with the desired combination of traits.
These two (7 and 8) seem to be the most popular variants at this point, particularly the gene-splicing concept.
Furry fans like to read and write stories involving any of those creatures, admire and create art featuring them, and play games that include them. This includes playacting, such as answering the phone with a "meow."
But some people are more than just furry FANS. These people are simply called FURRIES.
Furries are those who get into the concept so much that they deliberately develop alternate personas that actually have those animal traits. Each persona takes on a life of its own in a sort of controlled schizophrenia such as ventriloquists and fantasy gamers practice.
[Editor's Note: I don't agree that role-playing of any sort, furry persona or Dungeons and Dragons, should accurately be called "controlled schizophrenia," any more than an author should be considered schizophrenic if she has the ability to create and maintain believable characters in a novel.]
Not my note, though I partially agree with the comment... however, I do think there's a degree of multiple-personality involved, too. There's a difference between creating characters in a novel, and writing their adventures, and writing (or participating in) the adventures of an "alternate you"...
Furries have many different ways to relate to their furry personas. Some think of them as totally different beings who happen to live inside them. Others see them as simply minor varients of themselves. And still others see them as vehicles for normally suppressed aspects of their own personalities.
This is interesting in that it can work both ways... I've seen several shy people create considerably more expressive furry personalities (I suspect all sorts of deep psychological reasons behind this, but that's another subject...), but on the other hand one of the incarnations of my personna is a considerably more shy, less outgoing variant of myself, and I use it to some extent to remind myself of who I was, and why I changed...
The most interesting way of viewing a persona, though, is to see it as some sort of mystical entity that can confer benefits which are represented by the animal shape. Some relate this to a witch's familiar or to the spirit guardian of the Plains Indians. This can be taken literally, that is with actual belief in such entities, or in a Jungian fashion, that the animal shape is a symbolic key to unlock unconscious abilities.
Fine. So what do furries do with their personas? They communicate through them. The definition of the persona determines how the furry will express themself. This can be quite different from how the actual person does it. This may facilitate communication under circumstances in which the person would normally feel inhibited.
In fact it has been claimed that, despite the impression one might get about the persona as "putting on a mask," the use of the persona actually enables a person to be more genuinely themselves. That's because the persona has more freedom, not being subject to the stifling layers that social convention puts on us mere humans.
Long as we're getting free of social conventions, we might as well get to sex. Most furries are interested in the concept of sex between themselves as themselves, or themselves as their personas, with other such creatures. This differs from simple bestiality in that the partner is another mature sapient. So regardless of the species difference, it remains full participation sex between two people.
Dear me, did I say two? Two is another social convention. A lot (most?) furries like group sex.
In fact, social conventions seem to go down like dominos once one gets started. That may be why so many (most?) furries are bi.
This's hardly restricted to furry fandom, though; I've noticed it both in fandom in general, and (interestingly enough) on computer networks... I suspect a large part of the reason is that the people involved tend to be somewhat more intelligent, open-minded (in some things, anyway
, and comfortable with themselves than the population at large.
Let us now pause while the straight and monogamous folks come out from wherever they just dived into for cover.
Ok, didn't mean to chase anyone off. The point is that wherever may be on the spectrum, from full fledged furriness to just a reader of "Panda Khan," there is a place in furrydom for you.
[end of file]
(credited to Dr Pepper)
This is an attempt to concisely explain furrydom to the curious. I am not myself a member of this group, this is what I have been told, have heard and read, or just observed in action. This is by no means complete but it is a start towards understanding.
In the simplest terms furry fandom is the admiration of creatures that have both human and animal traits. Since such do not actually exist, this is considered a subgenre of science fiction/fantasy fandom.
One aspect of this is simply liking so called "funny animal" cartoons and comics, such as Bugs Bunny, Tom & Jerry, et al. Such creatures are not conceived with much logic, and it is their human references that are important, the animal shape is more for humor than anything else.
Then there is the envy of certain traits observed in animals. Such traits include speed, strength, grace, beauty, cunning and of course possession of fur. Most of the animals people are attracted to are mammals, hence the term "furry," but nothing is excluded.
This leads to the desire to put oneself in the animal's place so as to be able to really experience what it is like to be so gifted.
But most people want to have this experience with human type sapience. This leads to the postulation of various kinds of creatures.
Real animals that somehow can think and talk. A lot of folklore and mythology is mined for source material for these. Of more recent vintage is the idea of using biological or digital technology to augment ordinary creatures.
Sapient analogs of certain animals. These include parallel evolution on other worlds, human genetic intervention, and additional evolution, say due to massive radiation.
Gene spliced creatures made to order. These can range from customized humans to totally new beings made with the desired combination of traits.
These two (7 and 8) seem to be the most popular variants at this point, particularly the gene-splicing concept.
Furry fans like to read and write stories involving any of those creatures, admire and create art featuring them, and play games that include them. This includes playacting, such as answering the phone with a "meow."
But some people are more than just furry FANS. These people are simply called FURRIES.
Furries are those who get into the concept so much that they deliberately develop alternate personas that actually have those animal traits. Each persona takes on a life of its own in a sort of controlled schizophrenia such as ventriloquists and fantasy gamers practice.
[Editor's Note: I don't agree that role-playing of any sort, furry persona or Dungeons and Dragons, should accurately be called "controlled schizophrenia," any more than an author should be considered schizophrenic if she has the ability to create and maintain believable characters in a novel.]
Not my note, though I partially agree with the comment... however, I do think there's a degree of multiple-personality involved, too. There's a difference between creating characters in a novel, and writing their adventures, and writing (or participating in) the adventures of an "alternate you"...
Furries have many different ways to relate to their furry personas. Some think of them as totally different beings who happen to live inside them. Others see them as simply minor varients of themselves. And still others see them as vehicles for normally suppressed aspects of their own personalities.
This is interesting in that it can work both ways... I've seen several shy people create considerably more expressive furry personalities (I suspect all sorts of deep psychological reasons behind this, but that's another subject...), but on the other hand one of the incarnations of my personna is a considerably more shy, less outgoing variant of myself, and I use it to some extent to remind myself of who I was, and why I changed...
The most interesting way of viewing a persona, though, is to see it as some sort of mystical entity that can confer benefits which are represented by the animal shape. Some relate this to a witch's familiar or to the spirit guardian of the Plains Indians. This can be taken literally, that is with actual belief in such entities, or in a Jungian fashion, that the animal shape is a symbolic key to unlock unconscious abilities.
Fine. So what do furries do with their personas? They communicate through them. The definition of the persona determines how the furry will express themself. This can be quite different from how the actual person does it. This may facilitate communication under circumstances in which the person would normally feel inhibited.
In fact it has been claimed that, despite the impression one might get about the persona as "putting on a mask," the use of the persona actually enables a person to be more genuinely themselves. That's because the persona has more freedom, not being subject to the stifling layers that social convention puts on us mere humans.
Long as we're getting free of social conventions, we might as well get to sex. Most furries are interested in the concept of sex between themselves as themselves, or themselves as their personas, with other such creatures. This differs from simple bestiality in that the partner is another mature sapient. So regardless of the species difference, it remains full participation sex between two people.
Dear me, did I say two? Two is another social convention. A lot (most?) furries like group sex.
In fact, social conventions seem to go down like dominos once one gets started. That may be why so many (most?) furries are bi.
This's hardly restricted to furry fandom, though; I've noticed it both in fandom in general, and (interestingly enough) on computer networks... I suspect a large part of the reason is that the people involved tend to be somewhat more intelligent, open-minded (in some things, anyway
, and comfortable with themselves than the population at large.Let us now pause while the straight and monogamous folks come out from wherever they just dived into for cover.
Ok, didn't mean to chase anyone off. The point is that wherever may be on the spectrum, from full fledged furriness to just a reader of "Panda Khan," there is a place in furrydom for you.
[end of file]
Both of these articles are really old though. The primary being from 99' (which I still feel uneasy remembering is 11 years ago) and the former (Dr Pepper) analysis being from 1989 (which was before I was born so that's fine to call old as hell). Are they still relevant? Yakkers?
I was actually wondering just last night about how long 'furry' has been recognized as a distinct social group. I can't imagine it being such a big thing before the internet made it easy for people to find and communicate with each other without fear of derision. Or even to know that other furries exist: Example in point taken from the comments section of the article:
From: (Anonymous) Date: October 3rd, 2005 04:08 am (UTC) (Link)
Subject: Thank you..... =^_^=
Hey. My name is Anthony S., my E-identity is Wyntre Wolfe. I've been a furry basically all my life, but I didn't know there were others like me out there until a friend of mine, Adia, asked me if I was one. I didn't know what it was, she filled me in, I finally knew what to call my, shall we say, nonconformity. Anyway, I knew what I was, but I never really thought much about it until 15 minutes ago, when I was bored, I Googled "furry", and clicked on your article.
As I read, I literally got goosebumps. This was me in a way I'd never thought about myself before. I have to thank you, because for about the first time in my life, I actually felt accepted. And I want to do all I can to get into this group, to find other furries because I love this. I love these people. Do you perchance know of any prominent furry groups around the Dallas, TX area? If so, my email address is wyntrewolfe@gmail.com , and I'd appreciate any help, or just talking to someone who understands me finally. I can't thank you enough for what you've unknowingly done to help a lost soul, perhaps finally on his way to finding himself.
Subject: Thank you..... =^_^=
Hey. My name is Anthony S., my E-identity is Wyntre Wolfe. I've been a furry basically all my life, but I didn't know there were others like me out there until a friend of mine, Adia, asked me if I was one. I didn't know what it was, she filled me in, I finally knew what to call my, shall we say, nonconformity. Anyway, I knew what I was, but I never really thought much about it until 15 minutes ago, when I was bored, I Googled "furry", and clicked on your article.
As I read, I literally got goosebumps. This was me in a way I'd never thought about myself before. I have to thank you, because for about the first time in my life, I actually felt accepted. And I want to do all I can to get into this group, to find other furries because I love this. I love these people. Do you perchance know of any prominent furry groups around the Dallas, TX area? If so, my email address is wyntrewolfe@gmail.com , and I'd appreciate any help, or just talking to someone who understands me finally. I can't thank you enough for what you've unknowingly done to help a lost soul, perhaps finally on his way to finding himself.
Jun 28, 2011 at 8:38 PM
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I think they're still relevant from the most part, despite the fact that the whole thing has really moved almost exclusively onto the internet since then. I know a lot of people who would only want to practice it though the internet, sort of as a social escape I suppose, so they can practice a normal life in reality and let their less normal side out under the veil of the internet with a partial level of anonymity.
Also, as ironic as this may seem seeing as I'm the one who started this thread, I really don't see furry as something that can ever be described or classified with a notable amount of mutual accuracy. Even if someone may feel they've written an essay that contains everything there is to be written about it, I guarantee the majority of people who read it will be mildly offended and think "hey, that's not it at all," just because it's all so different to each individual. Perhaps I'd like to try someday though, maybe even for a future psychology class or something if I ever have the balls to do that.
So anyways with that in mind, my classification is more regarding of how the people appear from others' perspectives rather than how they experience it on their own.
And Noxid, that comment is exactly how I felt when I first found out it was a thing. I know it's something I've recognized the presence of for as long as I can remember, but back then it was nothing more than a strong feeling that I had no words or classifications for. So as expected, it was a very exhilarating and accepting feeling once I found out there were others and it was as big of a thing as it really is.
So I really think there was no time where it "began," and people probably have been feeling what I felt for an indeterminate amount of time in the past.
But I feel what we recognize as the fandom's birth goes hand in hand with the creation of the internet, as it was the first true outlet for furries to have that same epiphany and begin forming the communities as we know them today.
tl;dr: It's always been here, but only became something people were mutually aware of once the internet came along and allowed us to do so.
And Jacob, no offense, but based on past events I'd put you as a 3. But by now I think you've retracted back to a 1.
Also, as ironic as this may seem seeing as I'm the one who started this thread, I really don't see furry as something that can ever be described or classified with a notable amount of mutual accuracy. Even if someone may feel they've written an essay that contains everything there is to be written about it, I guarantee the majority of people who read it will be mildly offended and think "hey, that's not it at all," just because it's all so different to each individual. Perhaps I'd like to try someday though, maybe even for a future psychology class or something if I ever have the balls to do that.
So anyways with that in mind, my classification is more regarding of how the people appear from others' perspectives rather than how they experience it on their own.
And Noxid, that comment is exactly how I felt when I first found out it was a thing. I know it's something I've recognized the presence of for as long as I can remember, but back then it was nothing more than a strong feeling that I had no words or classifications for. So as expected, it was a very exhilarating and accepting feeling once I found out there were others and it was as big of a thing as it really is.
So I really think there was no time where it "began," and people probably have been feeling what I felt for an indeterminate amount of time in the past.
But I feel what we recognize as the fandom's birth goes hand in hand with the creation of the internet, as it was the first true outlet for furries to have that same epiphany and begin forming the communities as we know them today.
tl;dr: It's always been here, but only became something people were mutually aware of once the internet came along and allowed us to do so.
And Jacob, no offense, but based on past events I'd put you as a 3. But by now I think you've retracted back to a 1.
Jun 29, 2011 at 12:42 AM
Join Date: Aug 28, 2009
Location: The Purple Zone
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I find the whole psychology side of it to be a somewhat fascinating subject; I would love to see some statistics from a really good survey (Probably would be near impossible to get a true representative sample though). Like, what's the male-female ratio? Average age? Sexual orientation? What percentage roleplay? How many are fursuiters? What's their taste in music? I want to see correlations, dammit.
Maybe I'm just so intrigued because I am one by the more broad applications of the term (hurr big secrit). I'd probably never call myself one except in a very accepting setting such as this forum here becausepeople would instantly assume the worst I'm paranoid as shit. On the Yakkers Scale, I'm a one I guess? Probably used to be more of a 2 actually but JacobX891 and Captain Fabulous scared me, for different reasons.
Maybe I'm just so intrigued because I am one by the more broad applications of the term (hurr big secrit). I'd probably never call myself one except in a very accepting setting such as this forum here because
Jun 29, 2011 at 12:51 AM
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Mission accomplished. Captain Fabulous: bringing you the worst of the internets since 2009.
If you want to research furries, the entire internet is full of them. Conducting a survey would be difficult, but hanging around furry communities would give you a good idea of what you want to know.
If you want to research furries, the entire internet is full of them. Conducting a survey would be difficult, but hanging around furry communities would give you a good idea of what you want to know.
Jun 29, 2011 at 1:31 AM
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Noxid said:
So much about this sums up how I am on the matter. Actually, (not that this really qualifies me as an expert statistician) now that I've taken a statistics class, I'm half tempted to actually go through with designing a proper survey. Stratifying it properly to get a fair representation would be reeeeaaaally difficult, but at least I have a little bit of wherewithall to eliminate SOME bias.
Tell you what. If enough folks here are interested, I'll try to whip something up.
Jun 29, 2011 at 2:20 AM
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If the survey was fairly basic, organization wouldn't be -too- hard, just tedious to keep track of. The only thing I'd really be worried about is keeping it representative, primarily because of voluntary response bias and selecting the proper sample populations. I'd need a way to randomly select where I get my samples from, which would be hella difficult. I suppose if I had an extensive list of furry-centric websites, randomly selected some sites from that list, then randomly select x number of members to survey. I'd have to contact the webmasters of each site and see if I could get full lists of their users in order to generate a truly random sample, and I don't know how keen they'd be at that. I don't want to just randomly throw the survey out there and let people answers as they want to, because that'll end up with a huge voluntary response bias.
RANDOMIZE ALL THE THINGS
RANDOMIZE ALL THE THINGS
Jun 29, 2011 at 2:50 AM
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Wait... I haven't taken a statistics course, but couldn't you take a proportional number of members based on the size of the site?
But I would segregate the sites or something in case some sites are crazier than others. Like how PETA and ASPCA are both animal organizations, but one is crazy.
But I would segregate the sites or something in case some sites are crazier than others. Like how PETA and ASPCA are both animal organizations, but one is crazy.
Jun 29, 2011 at 3:10 AM
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Randomization is a HUGE, HUGE HUGE HUGE part of ANY statistical query. Avoid hand-picking where you get your sample WHENEVER POSSIBLE. See, our actions are always prone to our own personal biases, whether we're aware of it or not. Something as simple as a person shouting numbers will fall into some sort of pattern or trend. Unless the aspect in question is specifically part of your study (for your example: testing which of a list of animal rights organizations demonstrates the most extreme methods, then somehow scheme up a fair criteria to measure that with numbers, I dunno), randomize that sucker.
Jun 29, 2011 at 4:20 AM
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Posts: 5998
Pronouns: he/him
Such is the problem with statistics. I too have taken a stats course, and the one thing I took away from it was "Everything you do is wrong and you can never trust statistics". Maybe something about poisson distributions too.
Anyway, without massive resources and/or tons of influence with these communities, it would be nigh impossible to do a truly random survey. Add in the factor that this is the internet and nobody's going to do this if they don't want to and the difficulty in doing this the "proper" way increases dramatically
However, we're not a statistics firm and nobody's going to get fired or killed if these results are inaccurate. I think if one is to do this at all, then one shouldn't worry too much about how meaningful the statistics are. At the very least you could say it's a "Sample of furries who volunteer for surveys on such and such websites" and it would be kind of correct ;]
Unless you were some kind of PR genius it might be hard to get participants unless the survey was:
- Quick
- Interesting
- Done in a web form
I'm not trying to make it sound like a bad idea! I think maybe we should just take a more casual approach to the whole survey thing or else end up just pulling hairs.
Anyway, without massive resources and/or tons of influence with these communities, it would be nigh impossible to do a truly random survey. Add in the factor that this is the internet and nobody's going to do this if they don't want to and the difficulty in doing this the "proper" way increases dramatically
However, we're not a statistics firm and nobody's going to get fired or killed if these results are inaccurate. I think if one is to do this at all, then one shouldn't worry too much about how meaningful the statistics are. At the very least you could say it's a "Sample of furries who volunteer for surveys on such and such websites" and it would be kind of correct ;]
Unless you were some kind of PR genius it might be hard to get participants unless the survey was:
- Quick
- Interesting
- Done in a web form
I'm not trying to make it sound like a bad idea! I think maybe we should just take a more casual approach to the whole survey thing or else end up just pulling hairs.
Jun 29, 2011 at 4:25 AM
Join Date: Apr 19, 2009
Location:
Posts: 3785
Age: 18
Pronouns: he/him
So basically all we have to do is make a short survey and post it on every furry website ever.
Jun 29, 2011 at 4:51 AM
Join Date: Aug 20, 2006
Location:
Posts: 2859
Age: 34
Pronouns: he/him
You could probably get all the information you needed without having to make a survey
Jun 29, 2011 at 5:11 AM
Join Date: May 6, 2009
Location: somewhere new
Posts: 2135
Age: 30
Pronouns: he/him
This sounds like a good idea, I'm curious as well. I agree with Fab, just go to a few furry forums (of which I know none), and make a kind and well-meaning thread, making sure not to come across as using them as numbers instead of people. Something like:
"Hey fellas. I decided to join a furry community (this one, in fact) after much deliberation. I really wanted to get to know other people like me, because my regular social life places me far away from anybody who would be considered a 'furry,' per se. I just have so many questions about what you guys are like. What music do you like? What's your favorite animal? Stuff like that.
I know it's weird, but since I don't have the time to get to know each of you personally (as much as I would love to), so I made a stupid little question sheet on one of those free survey sites.
If you could take a few seconds to answer the questions, that would be great.
Many thanks,
-Cultr1"
I dunno, I'm not a writer.
Let me predict a few results beforehand, so I can be a smug douche when I'm right:
Almost balanced between male and female (55% male?)
Mostly bisexual
Indie music, alternative maybe?
CATS
no fursuiting
"Hey fellas. I decided to join a furry community (this one, in fact) after much deliberation. I really wanted to get to know other people like me, because my regular social life places me far away from anybody who would be considered a 'furry,' per se. I just have so many questions about what you guys are like. What music do you like? What's your favorite animal? Stuff like that.
I know it's weird, but since I don't have the time to get to know each of you personally (as much as I would love to), so I made a stupid little question sheet on one of those free survey sites.
If you could take a few seconds to answer the questions, that would be great.
Many thanks,
-Cultr1"
I dunno, I'm not a writer.
Let me predict a few results beforehand, so I can be a smug douche when I'm right:
Almost balanced between male and female (55% male?)
Mostly bisexual
Indie music, alternative maybe?
CATS
no fursuiting