CaveEditor again (beta, maybe alpha)

I found a map editing issue.

So, when I try to erase one of the map tiles with the Draw tool, the tile doesn't get erased.

The Rectangle tool seems to work fine, but the Draw tool doesn't.
I'm using CE version 0.99c with Windows XP. Anyone else having this problem?

 

Compared to what? You still need to convert from your patch to the Mac format as well.

The comparison I made was applying the patch on Windows to applying the patch on Mac (same patch file). Suppose you did use the UPS format. As I understand, UPS is a generic binary diff format, which compares two binary files and outputs a file which can then be used to transform one of those files into the other. So, that UPS patch would be trivial to apply to a copy of Windows Cave Story.

But then suppose that you wanted to apply the patch to a copy of Mac Cave Story. It's no longer trivial, because the Mac executable has an entirely different format. Applying said patch would require that the Mac patcher know both the format of the Windows executable and the format of the Mac executable, in order to file all the data into the correct location.

A custom patch format such as I have suggested, however, is independent of the actual layout of the executable, and thus it is fairly easy (though not quite trivial) for the patch to be applied to any executable, on any platform.

If you really want to do this then there is one thing you need to understand...

Do not attempt to make it human readable. You need it to be as machine readable as possible if you want people to use it and develop for it, so store your values as bytes.

Uh. A human readable format is still machine readable. Suppose it was text-based of the form "attribute<tab>value". In that case, a patcher would simply need to have a loop where it first reads a string and then, depending on what the string is, reads a second value and stores it in the proper location. Furthermore, it has the advantage of being endian-independent, so that a patcher does not need to care about what endian the file should use.

Of course, it has disadvantages too; it's less compact, for example. But the main point here is that "human-readable" and "machine-readable" are by no means mutually exclusive.

..and document the patch file in the readme file (like the example above) for developer use.

Well, of course. Whichever format I choose (text, binary, whatever), it will be documented.

Note that text handling in Python is actually easier than handling of binary files, so that might factor into my choice. (And in C++, they're both just as easy provided you use std::string for your text handling.)

Still think it's a bad idea either way but a bit of advice can't hurt.

 

Yeah, all that stuff sounds cool. Whatever it is.
Anyway, I would like to suggest some minor changes to CE for clarification and to reflect our better understanding of the engine.

1) Change Option 1 to read "Run event on Contact". Really, the only entity that has information marked under Option 1 is the H/V trigger and guess what - that entity sets flag 0x100 on itself should you forget to.
2) Change Option 2 to read "Direction = 2" or something similar, since that's what it does. Somehow make it apparant that an alternate direction can have other effects on an entity in the Extra Info segment of the NPC Editor perhaps.
3) The Entity flags listing in the map editor and the NPC editor don't match up. I'm pretty sure these are all the same flags so their explanation should be consistent.
4) Flag 0x400 does nothing, so it should say so instead of '???'
5) 'Entity ID' is a somewhat vauge term, perhaps it would be more clear if we called it 'Entity Flag', and called 'Flags' 'Behaviour flags' instead? That empty box could be used to make some space for text, seeing as it doesn't seem to serve any purpose. This is probably a hard one to change since it's sort of always been that way.
6) There are a total of 0x9B different sound effects slots in the game (at least, the numbers for them go that high). I think there's currently only provision for 72 or something.

Also:

Having a minor issue with the background not showing up properly when writing over tiles. The things go away if I press ctrl-z or something like that.

 

1-4) As for the Flag descriptions and the like, I'll have to overhaul that data to get it up to date. I'll even make the text editable via the config file.
5) I always thought if the 'Entity ID' as the 'Entity script identifier' but the names are a bet confusing as they are. That black box can go. It was a space holder for displaying sprites long ago that's not needed.
6) 155 sound effects is a lot more than 72. I highest sound effect used in game was 72 I thought. Beyond that I wasn't sure so they were omitted. If there is a definitive list I'll include that instead.

I found a map editing issue.

So, when I try to erase one of the map tiles with the Draw tool, the tile doesn't get erased.

The Rectangle tool seems to work fine, but the Draw tool doesn't.
I'm using CE version 0.99c with Windows XP. Anyone else having this problem?

That's odd. I did just do a rewrite of the map display code to half its mem usage. Both this and Noxid's errors are probably related to that.

Having a minor issue with the background not showing up properly when writing over tiles. The things go away if I press ctrl-z or something like that.

I thought I had that one nailed down already. I guess not. I'll look at it again.

 

If you get SeaTone and use it to extract all the sounds from the game, it gives them a name and the corresponding number, and they go up to 0x9B for the drums. Granted, a great many of those are simply null. Pixel seems to like spacing them out for whatever reason. Maybe they weren't all part of the same list, who knows. I could probably put together a list if you wanted.

 

Uh. A human readable format is still machine readable. Suppose it was text-based of the form "attribute<tab>value". In that case, a patcher would simply need to have a loop where it first reads a string and then, depending on what the string is, reads a second value and stores it in the proper location. Furthermore, it has the advantage of being endian-independent, so that a patcher does not need to care about what endian the file should use.

Of course, it has disadvantages too; it's less compact, for example. But the main point here is that "human-readable" and "machine-readable" are by no means mutually exclusive.

I am afraid that you have missed my point. A human-readable format can still be machine-readable, but you want the interpreter to be as simple to create as possible since you want people to develop for the format. The more human-readable you make it the more complex the interpreter you will need to write.

Secondly the format need not be endian-independent, just platform-independent.

And last of all your format is hopelessly redundant. Starting maps, health, events, all can be replaced with simple TSC, assembly hacks can never be platform independent, mapdata is already handled, and anything else in the exe is not used in 97% of mods out there.

 

I am afraid that you have missed my point. A human-readable format can still be machine-readable, but you want the interpreter to be as simple to create as possible since you want people to develop for the format. The more human-readable you make it the more complex the interpreter you will need to write.

The interpreter wouldn't really be that complex for a text format... that said, for a binary format it would be a little simpler.

Secondly the format need not be endian-independent, just platform-independent.

Correct.

Starting maps, health, events, all can be replaced with simple TSC,

Why would you want to do an ugly TSC hack when you can just replace the constant in the exe?

assembly hacks can never be platform independent, mapdata is already handled,

I am aware of both of these.

 

I've got a problem, though I'm not sure if it's Cave Editor's fault or not.
You see, I had just finished a map. I come back an hour later, the files for it are nowhere to be found on my computer.
The map took me all day! I was just wondering, is it Cave Editor's fault? If it is, it really needs to be fixed. I would also like a reason for it, as there's none apparent.

 

Did you save it?

 

I did in fact, save it. I was testing it as I was making it.

Edit: The NPC table editor has a glitch in which it deletes the sounds of the enemies if you save, though I'm sure you've heard this one before. This should be fixed.

 

Cave Editor Complaint

This is the second time I've accidently done this, and I fear it won't be the last unless something is changed. o.e

Basically, why is there not a Y/N confirmation popup when clicking on "delete map"? Twice now, I've double clicked on something that closes that window; by mistake or habit; and had the second click land on the "delete map" button. Not to mention there's no apparent recovery what so ever. Not even a setting that forces cave editor to use the recycle bin.

If anyone with the source has the inkling to do so, I for one would -love- a simple confirmation popup for the delete map button, or the delete map function being forced to utilize the recycle bin.

*grumbles*

 

Merge'd
Cave editor does have its own thread..
and you can download the source yourself if you want to change it

Anyway that sounds like a good idea I guess. I can't say I've ever had this happen to me though...

 

I never could download the source. I'd always 404.

 

Wouldn't it be great if there was like a red border that showed where the text ends and a new line appears?

 

I never could download the source. I'd always 404.

Check the first post of this thread.

 

Or even better, get a mod to edit the correct link into the first post.

 

Or even better, get a mod to edit the correct link into the first post.

That's retarded

 

Now I'm confused. I could've sworn Noxid's post said something about hunting through the thread for a link, but that is clearly not the case at this time.

Oh well. It's in the first post, that's the important part.

That's retarded

What is?

 

EDIT: Never mind. Why is there an OPTION to remove the read-only status from files? Shouldn't that be, you know, a given?

 

not necessarily. call it an idiot check