Cave Story - Redesign v0.50.6

Apr 3, 2011 at 4:06 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

TheTorokoSaysMeow said:
Then again, i "was" using the machine gun with infinite ammo to get up there, but anyway, things people can't get to anyway, and shouldn't, should be removed.... :toroko:

Aaand that's why that happened, because in the currently released version, that area is not accessible. :chin:

A lot is being changed for the next version, which I've been busy working on.

Here are some preview screenshots of the next version:

'The Sparkler' in action in the Sand Zone.
diph.php

The boulder tiles are completely custom, hand made by yours truly.
Sneak peak of a new major boss.
p122073-1-148hpbp.jpg

This boss is quite difficult, and should provide a good challenge.
On the path to the Sand Zone.
p122073-2-t724xs.jpg

A crypt connected to the village. Do the tiles look familiar? They should. :rolleyes:


:toroko:
 
Apr 3, 2011 at 4:22 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

:rolleyes:

the amount of effort being put into this is just blowing my mind

also you had that tile set of stones and whatnot from sandzone already made from you previous version :3
 
Apr 7, 2011 at 9:54 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

I was very curious about this creation, and I do have to say that this is very well made and fun to play. I'm currently still in the Egg Corridor, desperately trying to defeat the near impossible Igor (Maybe it's the fact that it's been many months since I've played Cave Story, let alone playing like a hardcore juggernaut).

Did you make the sprites and the tilesets yourself? Because they are really good. Since you have considered making some tweaks and additions to the tilesets, it would be interesting if you could go far enough to enhance the character sprites, too. While that does sound tedious, it could look really nice, since you're a very good spriter. Plus, it could mix well with the new additions that you put in for the tilesets, since the spriting is in your style.. I really hope you know where I'm getting at. >.>

The assembly hacks are very exciting and makes the whole game fresh with it's gameplay, like it's somewhat of an enhanced upgrade. The simplicity in the mod as far as ideas go make it even more interesting, since the majority of the mod is that the mapping has been re-imagined. I was waiting for someone to make a mod like this.

Please keep up the good work, I expect alot more goodies and surprises from this mod. Since it really doesn't alter the story at all, I'm sure that this mod can be complete sometime soon if you continued developing frequently, depending on how much freetime you have. Despite how I sound about that, please keep in mind that it's best to take your time on the project. I'm just stating some possibilities, hehe.

Good job. :3
 
Apr 8, 2011 at 2:43 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

Thank you Ralren, and yes, I do plan on adding more animation frames to Quote once more gameplay mechanics have been added.

If you're having trouble with Igor, try looking around in the Egg Corridor some more for Missile Expansions. A few can make quite a difference when fighting him. Also, you may be used to jumping over Igor when he starts to lunge at you. Don't. :awesomeface:
 
Apr 9, 2011 at 10:42 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

I just found this yesterday, at let me first say holy CRAP I'm blown away at the care and effort that's been put into this mod. It has just the right level of difficulty, and the map design is mindblowing. I am DEFINITELY following the development of this, I can't wait for the final product.

I found a few things that need fixing:

If you haven't beaten Balrog in Grasstown yet, and drop down into Underwood from the shaft next to Kentai's house, the game doesn't load the Underwood map.
If you fight Balrog in Grasstown, lose, then revisit Santa, you get his "Don't startle me like that/thanks for restoring power" dialogue as if you won the fight. He is still standing next to his bed instead of near the fireplace when this happens.
There's a shack at the top of Grasstown that you pass on the way to The Weed. If you try to open it, it says it's locked, but the door opens up anyway. You don't go inside, but you can't interact with the door again once it's opened.
p122077-0-door.png
When exiting out of a door with the rocket launcher equipped, it will do this until you take your first step:
p122077-1-rocketlauncher.png

Hope this helps!

Edit: One other fix I forgot to mention.
On the way to the shed housing Kazuma in The Weed, I heard the sound of text advancing for a brief second, but didn't see any sort of prompt. I think it was just to the left of the two -127 deathspikes RIGHT before you see the shed.
 
Apr 18, 2011 at 3:24 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

Thanks for the bug reports, most of what's been reported (and much that hasn't) has already been fixed - just not released yet. Most of the areas being added for the next version are done - they just need scripting and bug testing. Some mob sprites are still being worked on as well, and there are a few ASM bugs that haven't been fixed yet. Anyways, here's a new preview image:

Jenka's New Digs
p122078-0-vh816r.jpg

I hope to have a ready (although likely buggy) version ready in around a month.

Also, Ralren, I don't think I really answered your question. There are several more game mechanics that are planned for Quote. They are swimming (an upgrade is required as Quote is too heavy by default), wall-kicking, a grappler gun (numerous angled frames and swinging frames), and lastly a dash feature. Granted, Quote is only 16x16 pixels, and his hitbox is even less. That's not really much room to work with, but I'll see what I can do. (Note that none of those mentioned mechanics are going to be in the next version, sorry.)
 
Apr 19, 2011 at 1:40 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

Dubby said:
swimming (an upgrade is required as Quote is too heavy by default), wall-kicking, a grappler gun (numerous angled frames and swinging frames), and lastly a dash feature.
diph.php
 
Apr 22, 2011 at 8:35 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

Although I haven't played it yet, from what I've seen from screenshots you've done a good job imitating Pixel's style.
 
Apr 22, 2011 at 9:28 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

Walrusdude said:
Although I haven't played it yet, from what I've seen from screenshots you've done a good job imitating Pixel's style.
It isn't about replicating pixel's style. It's about surpassing it.
Dubby said:
They are swimming (an upgrade is required as Quote is too heavy by default), wall-kicking, a grappler gun (numerous angled frames and swinging frames), and lastly a dash feature.
Didn't see/notice this. Swimming hack isn't too hard, and I hope you have fun with the trig functions (for grappling) :3
 
Apr 22, 2011 at 11:43 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

Lace said:
It isn't about replicating pixel's style. It's about surpassing it.
Didn't see/notice this. Swimming hack isn't too hard, and I hope you have fun with the trig functions (for grappling) :3

I've done my share of trig programming for FPS games in LUA before [AI, dynamic projectiles, path finding, etc.), so I hath no fear of doing grappling.

Anyways, what I've been up to lately... is this!

p122082-0-2nrggzs.jpg


The fireball is getting two upgrade items. The first one, shown here, adds little dancing flamelets to the fireball's trail. These rain down slowly, and cause minor - although persistant - damage. Interestingly, when launched as an arc (uh, hold up and shoot), the flamelets tend to all touch down at about the same time. The second upgrade causes the fireball to explode at the end of it's life. No fancy custom graphics for the boom, yet.
 
Apr 23, 2011 at 1:58 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

That is darn cool. I'm totally following this.
 
Apr 24, 2011 at 7:47 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

The new fireball makes me want to shut down for a month and study to become the master of CS assembly. This is officialy the mod that I will have the hardest time waiting for the next release.
 
Apr 27, 2011 at 12:40 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

I should've followed this more closely. I'm suffering from awesome overload now.
 
Apr 30, 2011 at 4:40 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

Just a note, you might want to delete the config.dat in the folder, having to delete it every time is just irritating and I'm pretty sure most people play on fullscreen.
 
Apr 30, 2011 at 5:15 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

It is far less irritating to delete a file then to have to go through the config menu every time you download a mod. I always use windowed mode always, and while it may save you one four seconds to remove the config, it saves me and others like me at least thirty.

I'm sure when you take into account everyone, it comes up about even, so i'd just say it is up to the creator.
 
Apr 30, 2011 at 5:40 AM
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Okay, played it for about 15 minutes until I jumped into a spike pit, and here are my criticisms.
Preface: Sine you're pretty good at this, I'm going to critique you like I would an actual game designer :3 Also, I am good at playing Cave Story, and I have a lot of experience with TSC coding, so if I seem naïve it's for the sake of common players.

First, a little about designing mods: the player of your mod is like a customer in many respects. There are numerous products just like yours within grasp; if they don't like yours, they can go grab another for literally ten seconds of effort. Yours may even be better, but if you get off on the wrong foot, you can lose your "customer" for good. Your job as a modder is to hook them to your mod, and so they'll keep playing it and look forward to updates, which I assume is your purpose for making this mod.
This makes beginnings key. If there is even a small amount of confusion, or an unclear or potentially frustrating part at the very start, people will just give up on your mod and go try a different one. That is another reason my critique will seem so harsh.
First impressions are the most important part of game design in many senses.

~~~

First thing I notice in-game: the beginning isn't linear. This is not a good way
to begin a game, especially if there is an item the player needs to get at the beginning to progress, and only a few ways lead to it. It makes new players apprehensive, and worry about their choices, which is not what you want the player to do at the very start of the game. A good and easy way to fix a bit of this would be the hermit's house, for example. Simply putting that door in the player's view as soon as they enter the room removes any apprehension that they would get from having another possible branch to explore. I liked the locked door handle jiggle <SOU arrangement, by the way, it was a nice touch.

Next, the stairway with the shootable blocks: it is easy to get yourself stuck at the bottom, because at the bottom there is no way to make the step-on blocks regenerate, and the secret way out is semi-difficult to find, because a player won't naturally look at what is effectively the middle of a hill (assuming you haven't destroyed the very bottom shootable blocks). This will frustrate players, and cause someone to get frustrated, possibly give up on the mod as a whole.

The next thing I notice is this:
p122089-0-jbiaq.png

There's a little hill with an enemy behind it. The player's first instinct is to shoot the enemy (since the gun has decent range now), but it hits the hill and stops. This is irritating, because it shrinks the already close-quarters battlefield for the player, and wastes their time. If your intent was to show the player that the hill blocks bullets, I would recommend switching the positions of the enemy and the hill, so the players inevitable extra shots will hit the hill and dissipate, having the same end result.

The next thing that catches my eye is this patch of different tiles here:
p122089-1-afvmr.png

I can see it's for the style of the map, like the ceiling, or to connect the two rooms in a sense (maybe even literally later), but it causes players to stop unnecessarily and waste their time trying to figure out if that area has meaning. They think "Is it a secret door? Does it disappear like those blocks before? Do I just ignore it?" and gives the player a sense they're not figuring out a puzzle, or doing something wrong. It also appears here, and has a similar effect:
p122089-2-3v6ff.png

In both cases, just replace it with the cracked square tile you're using everywhere else, it will make things a lot better for the player.

In that same picture above, you can see a spike pit to the right. My only gripe with this is the Quote-sized holes on the left and right. Players are experimental, and rewarding exploration with instant death followed by respawning a solid 4 minutes back is not a good idea in the beginning of a game.

Then there was this spot of enemies:
p122089-3-irzau.png

There were two enemies in there, but I took a screenshot after I killed one.
It's just not a good setup for enemies, and sadly, a lot of modders fall into this trap, thinking it presents a challenge. The reality is that it doesn't at all. Players sit there for a second, think "how do I do this?" and then just jump in spamming X, take one or two hits, and move on. It's practically forcing the player to take a bit of damage.

On to something more positive, this puddle:
p122089-4-hfvdc.png

Players are prone to walking right up to the edge of walls and then jumping when they are unfamiliar with a map, and so I actually like this placement, for two reasons:
First, it teaches the player they have an air meter. It is almost forcing the player to go underwater, but at the same time flowing with the level design.
Second, it teaches the player their jumping height in water. By not letting them over the wall when they're in water, it teaches them quite nicely that their underwater jump height only clears one block.

Though it may not seem like it, overall I like this mod a lot. Just be mindful of your map design and I'm sure you'll have an awesome mod :rolleyes:
 
Apr 30, 2011 at 6:17 AM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

I agree with alot of the points Cultr1 talks about, i was quite overwhelmed when i downloaded it just now. But it looks pretty nice so far except for the large amount of instakill places.
 
Apr 30, 2011 at 2:29 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

cultr1 said:
Preface: Sine you're pretty good at this, I'm going to critique you like I would an actual game designer :3

Thanks! I've got some experience, have many friends in the industry, and have been counseling a little game called Path of Exile. My friend is the owner and founder of the company, and I'd probably be working for him if I lived in New Zealand. :toroko2: I'll likely be moving to Dallas in the next few months to room with a close friend who works for a developer there. Hopefully I can get a job with them.

cultr1 said:
I can see it's for the style of the map, like the ceiling, or to connect the two rooms in a sense (maybe even literally later), but it causes players to stop unnecessarily and waste their time trying to figure out if that area has meaning. They think "Is it a secret door? Does it disappear like those blocks before? Do I just ignore it?" and gives the player a sense they're not figuring out a puzzle, or doing something wrong.

Actually, it is. The switch that unlocks it is in the middle of the room. The first passage you are most likely to cross, is directly above the switch. But there's a hanging platform, so the typical response is to jump on the platform, and go over (which is the obvious route, but not the 'correct' route). Jumping down takes you directly to the switch, which should then leave you to realize the only way back up is the long way around. But that's not entirely true... there is a second way up through the crumbling blocks, but it's very difficult to do as it requires very perfect jumping, and is likely something only a speed runner would be able to do.

cultr1 said:
It also appears here, and has a similar effect:
In both cases, just replace it with the cracked square tile you're using everywhere else, it will make things a lot better for the player.

There's a hidden path directly above that block. Stand on it, and jump. That's why it's a different type of block, to draw attention to it. Once you realize there's a hidden passage above it, you start to probe the tunnels. Doing so rewards you with a life capsule. However, the passage has changed slightly since the last released version, and that block is no longer there.

cultr1 said:
In that same picture above, you can see a spike pit to the right. My only gripe with this is the Quote-sized holes on the left and right. Players are experimental, and rewarding exploration with instant death followed by respawning a solid 4 minutes back is not a good idea in the beginning of a game.

That block will be removed in the next version, as are (almost all) of the spikes on that map. This was (iirc) the very first area built, which is probably why it has some problems. I've gone through the whole first few areas again and made numerous minor adjustments to the level design (as well as the debug cat's first appearance), some from your suggestions.

Thanks for the critiquing. By and large, the reason I'm doing this mod is in order to have a complete project added to my portfolio. So thank you for taking me (and my redesign) seriously.
 
Apr 30, 2011 at 5:37 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

In that same picture above, you can see a spike pit to the right. My only gripe with this is the Quote-sized holes on the left and right. Players are experimental, and rewarding exploration with instant death followed by respawning a solid 4 minutes back is not a good idea in the beginning of a game.
:pignon: Dude, you see that?
:toroko2: huh?
:pignon: See that tiny spot between the spikes?
:pignon2: oh, yeah I see it...
:pignon: I'm going to jump there.
:pignon2::pignon2::pignon2: DUDE?
**explosion sound**
:pignon2: QUOTEEEEEEEE!
No actual Quotes were harmed in the making of this story


I played this yesterday~ Even without listening to anything I say, keep it up; you're doing great!

Long Impressions :
I was slightly thrown off by Pixel the cat xD
The long time between save points was a bit troublesome...
[random thoughts = it's nice to be able to save whenever, although it's not nice to exploit saving anywhere and using it over and over. On the other hand, if you gave the player only a couple of saves per game level... It would force the player to be mindful with his saves. You could still keep the original major save points though.

... or more standard have some sort of lives system, run out of lives and you start at a save point, otherwise you can start in the section you are in (like a midpoint autosave, non-save spot)

Also if you want the player to realize spike pit = bad...? Maybe have a critter jump in one and explode for the player's entertainment.
But please, don't abuse the critters...:critter::balrog:]

The disappearing blocks are awesome but, also annoying; in that since they disappear immediately you can be forced to restart if you are dying to see what's on the other side.
[Random thought : Health capsules shouldn't be too hard to get, since newer players need them more than experienced ones. On the other hand, optional items or secrets should/could be one-chance; it's okay if you didn't make it items.]
BTW!
But that's not entirely true... there is a second way up through the crumbling blocks, but it's very difficult to do as it requires very perfect jumping, and is likely something only a speed runner would be able to do.
I did that on my first playthrough... I was really surprised I made it up xD
Also I noticed you fixed the menu cheat! Where you take damage everytime you open the menu... I was going to use it to cheat jump a bat into a new area.......

The doors have a little crack on the side of them that makes it look strange... like a huge hinge.

Loved the little touches you've added. The locked door sound. The event driven objects and switches. The dialogues and chrono like mime events... I have mixed feelings about the miming, but it's very cute and adds flavor to Quote.

The fighting was enjoyable. The critter boss uh... he was pretty cool, but it would be nice if he switched things up sometimes [instead of flying, do a regular jump].
The Mimiga village was pretty nice. I don't like the back and forth hopping you have to do in places like the flower farm place...

The Mimiga village is pretty nice! I liked all the extra places, the walkways. I'm not 100% sold on Arthur's grave trick, but it added a lot to the graveyard!
Oh, that knife guy that poofed up was a bit scary xD Nice...
Jack walks the wrong way or something when heading to tell Arthur (walked past the jump you have to do to get up to the place). I think that's what looked odd...

I liked how you played on where Toroko ran to. "I think she ran in here..."

Checking the buckets was a bit odd, since there is a limited amount of interaction/searching in most other places in the game... Now if you add more non-plot searching, even if just for fun it might fit in better in my opinion...

The egg corridor is now a fortress. It was a bit overwhelming, I am liking the missile blocks and secrets... The riding guys was a bit tricks, and the block that you have to walk with is especially awful.
I stopped soon after the Ctuhulu chat after following the hearts lol, after feeling a bit overwhelmed or troubled by the backtracking I knew I needed to do...

The life capsule near the beginning of egg corridor was kind of evil!

Anyways nice!
 
Apr 30, 2011 at 6:12 PM
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Re: Cave Story - Redesign

So those blocks indicate something, awesome.
In that case you should keep it the way it is. Maybe, on that one single block in midair, put one to either side of the secret entrance, giving them a little more of a hint.

Or, even better, block the very first entrance to that area (where that tiny hill was) with a gate made out of the same stuff, and make the player open it with a button or something to teach them its meaning.
 
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