Setting Some Standards

It is but you see people just visit 1000+ centuries old mod threads saying "Dead? OMFG T_T".

Ah, yes, that should not be done...

 

Well, to me, the rules as proposed by DT seem fair. About that trolling thing, I think one warning should always be issued. Something like "Cut it, ot you'll be banned." If he stops (is that even possible?), it's all right, if not, then SMITE HIM WITH THE MIGHTY BANHAMMER!!!

Jacob has been as rude and arrogant to people, NEW people especially.

Has he? Well, he wasn't rude to me at all (until I made fun of him, anyway).

Also, I thought the policy here was to resurrect threads rather than starting a new one?

Now that's good to know.
*takes note*

 

Has he? Well, he wasn't rude to me at all (until I made fun of him, anyway).

I doubt he knew you existed before that.

Most new members disappear after 10 posts or so, so we all assumed you're one of em when you first appeared as a new guy. It's the same with everyone

 

SMITE HIM WITH THE MIGHTY BANHAMMER!!!

Congratulions on 100th post!

 

Now that's good to know.
*takes note*

It is – I for one am used to places that prefer to start a new thread rather than resurrecting an old one.

 

I don't see where you make the difference between the two, Double.

Because Jake isn't so self-absorbing you could use him to wipe up his own piss?
Because Jake doesn't deliberately go hunting for trouble?
Because Jake gets payed out all the time whilst everyone else rushes to kiss Kag's arse?
Because Kag is picking on Jake solely because he knows most folks don't like him so much and so can get away with it?
...Because Jake actually has a personality?!??!?!?!
It's pretty clear to me that he's getting the short end of the stick

 

Because Jake isn't so self-absorbing you could use him to wipe up his own piss?
Because Jake doesn't deliberately go hunting for trouble?
Because Jake gets payed out all the time whilst everyone else rushes to kiss Kag's arse?
Because Kag is picking on Jake solely because he knows most folks don't like him so much and so can get away with it?
...Because Jake actually has a personality?!??!?!?!
It's pretty clear to me that he's getting the short end of the stick

1. You might have missed posts where he flamed newbies for no reason at all. At least Kag doesn't troll new people unless they come in his way, by which time they're bound to know not to take him seriously.

2. Nope, Jake always (deliberately) makes himself appear the wannabe type who doesn't give fuck to nething and always comes bad in any argument, whether serious or not. They're both opposites there, and you should let them have their personalities and not interfere.

3. Well then what do you say about us rushing to Garde's help, pointlessly now that I look back at it, and picking on Kageryushin? SP, ris and Atravir are the ones he trolled before, and none of them lacked member support.

4. Both Kageryushin and Jake try to be people they aren't and you can see their real personalities from how well they play their roles. How many people do you know that can play the "pwn all" type better than j00shin can?

 

Well, if you'd ask me, I don't really mind Jacob. He's mostly behaved when I was around, and, y'know, it's always good to have somebody to mock here...

Congratulions on 100th post!

Thank you.

 

4. Both Kageryushin and Jake try to be people they aren't and you can see their real personalities from how well they play their roles. How many people do you know that can play the "pwn all" type better than j00shin can?

Hundreds. Partly because he never actually DOES anything >_>
But whatever, clearly this discussion isn't going anywhere helpful, so I'll just put up with it like a REEAAL MAAAN. Though I'm sure you can at least agree with me that if SP (or, by some miracle, another mod/admin) asks him to stop in a given instance then he has no excuse to continue.

As for everything else, it seems that that's all pretty universally agreed on and just needs some tweaking, so unless somebody can think of something else they don't like, I think it's safe to say we can start finding ways to work these ideas into the forum.

 

Deliberate thread spamming - It's bad, don't do it, full stop. Off-topic does not necessarily = spamming.

Hmm I agree a lot. Quite ironic.

Very dark or light-coloured text - It gets annoying and it makes the forums hard to read. Okay to use sometimes. Seems to not be a problem anymore.

I disagree that it shouldn't be one's default. But I don't really mind if you guys think otherwise. But DB, Naru, Hyr not here...
Probably just a coincidence. But could be...

Bumping of topic for no great reason - Frowned upon. Only bump if there's something to add and it's not practical to just make a new one.

This is something my love have done before. I apologize in behalf of her.

Trolling - Ban it.

Ban it.

Location names - Not so long that they stretch the forum page out.

So far no problem. But if it does stretch the page out, then warn.

HUGE TEXT - Don't use it all the time, it gets annoying, just like coloured text.

Agree. And BAN. It's way harder to read than colourfuls.

Really short posts - sort of akin to spamming, don't just makes little posts all the time, especially if they're just to take pot-shots at other users you don't like (there has been a lot of this lately).

Agree. Ban.

Flaming - Don't do it, no excuses really.

Agree. Warn and ban.

Doom Text - Don't do it all the time.

As long as you doom out your text sincerely then it'd be fine. Trust me, noobs who use doom at wrong times.

ADDITIONS:
On the subject of spam (and I touched on this waaaaaaay back in my firstest post), I personally find it really annoying when a poster ignores a large/significant portion of a thread to respond to something much earlier in it and only end up posting a witty tag-line or joke/thinly-veiled insult. This is especially the case when they skip over long posts because they're often the most important ones.

Agree. Sorry. Don't ban....

Oh, and lay the fuck off Jacob already. All of you >_>

www.wtf.org

 

Size 7 text is there for a reason. And unlike coloured text, it does add character to your posts if you use it as effectively as Jake does (in spamming that is).

Hundreds. Partly because he never actually DOES anything >_>
But whatever, clearly this discussion isn't going anywhere helpful, so I'll just put up with it like a REEAAL MAAAN. Though I'm sure you can at least agree with me that if SP (or, by some miracle, another mod/admin) asks him to stop in a given instance then he has no excuse to continue.

As for everything else, it seems that that's all pretty universally agreed on and just needs some tweaking, so unless somebody can think of something else they don't like, I think it's safe to say we can start finding ways to work these ideas into the forum.

1. Well I haven't. Thus my respect for him. =P


2. It's all a matter of opinion, mate. He hasn't done anything that could be defined as trolling. SP doesn't seem to mind any of Kageryushin's recent posts either, I don't see what you find wrong in them. =|

3. Oro?

 

2. It's all a matter of opinion, mate. He hasn't done anything that could be defined as trolling. SP doesn't seem to mind any of Kageryushin's recent posts either, I don't see what you find wrong in them. =|

DT has some weird grudge against Kage and takes him waaaayy too seriously. Try to avoid DT vs Kage arguments, they get annoying after a while.

But Jacob is not helping with the spam issue:
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/threads/58/

Can someone clean up that mess and issue a warning please.

 

Now that reminds me: Are there any topics I'd better not mention here? I'd better know so that I don't cause some sort of Internet Backdraft, you know...

 

Nevermind. Most forum members around here are like that, unfortunately. Don't fret, it's just acceptable behavior, apparently.

Oro? You just proved you didn't really get my points of argument back then.

's far as I know, ONLY Jacob has ever been such an ass to new members and seriously I don't see why he hasn't been temp-banned. Garde is sure gonna fume when he sees that.

I know I'm not in a position of authority, but I request some action here, this behaviour of Jake's is pissing me off like hell. <_<

Edit: Just wanted to add: I know these inter-member arguments have soared these days, but if we're looking at a change in the near future, we'll need to hold such talks. Ignoring flames to avoid a heated discussion will only make things worse.

 

Maybe you could just ignore him and then he wouldn't be a problem anymore ^________________________^

Also where was that posted, I seeing it not in thread.

 

Okay, there we've had quite a lot of chaos yesterday with a whole bunch of people overreacting and stuff turning a lot uglier than it should have.

Basically, I rebump this thread, not to reopen the argument, but because I know there are a lot of people who want the rules to be clarified. I'd also like to make the same point that jcys and Metalogz both made, that the official rules thread is quite outdated and would have applied only if those rules were enforced right from day 1. Please understand that while I'm not referring to any incident in particular, I've had to start with this because it's what made me post this in the first place. So don't misuderstand, I have absolutely no intention of throwing open a matter that has been sorted, whether for better or worse, by PM's. This is a thread for members to pour out their thoughts on the rules and their enforcements in general, so I'll be treating it that way. A lot of members are confused about the rules currently being enforced, so whether or not SP accepts the suggestions to tweak the rules, I think he ought to post what rules are being enforced and what are not (nobody has been following the rule that says signatures are to be strictly videogame-related, and nobody has objected to it either).

Firstly, those rules were made WAY back when this place had virtually nothing to moderate about it. Back then SW was probably enough for the whole boards. Now however, some of those rules, especially the definition of spam, doesn't seem the right thing. How does it matter if the posts are composed of one line or ten if they don't make sense anyway, or if they actually add something constructive to the topic?

Also, not everyone here are video-game freaks. I personally am not one, which is why I am lost for speech beyond Cave Story and LF2 and a few more titles whenever someone asks me what games I enjoy. It's really not a very helpful rule about the signatures because most of us have generic sigs or something based on other stuff we enjoy. So why the rule about videogame-based sigs?

Again, the Satellite Lounge is a place which was heavily inactive before we took the initiative to start games/generic conversations there. By saying all this was against the rules and also closing a few threads that had actually a lot of insightful stuff within them, but only one or two offtopic posts near the end, it's sort of inevitable that that section will die again. Moreover, the IMG code is disabled there, which is an obvious measure to enable us to lighten up the rule enforcement there. I do understand that flamebaits aren't welcome anywhere in this forum, but there should be an allowance to go at least a bit offtopic over there.

The obvious solution to Garde calling the "Kohaku vs whatever" posts offtopic is to make a new thread for such stuff which would only last a page or so because the scope of discussion itself is limited in such stuff. Shouldn't we, as a family, think of all this before pointing fingers on each other and saying "you spammed so you deserved to be warned" or "so and so has been bitching about his whole stay, so ban him"?

And please, don't bring the personal arguments back here. PM's were used for a reason, now don't untie what has been knotted in. If you have something to add to or argue with my opinion, feel free, but don't pick names unnecessarily or that defeats the whole point of this post of mine.

 

that the official rules thread is quite outdated and would have applied only if those rules were enforced right from day 1.

I was posting in threads when I was a mod "Stop the spamming." or even opening a thread for the warning, everyone read it and stopped the spamming. That's how it works if you are LUCKY. Because as a moderator I can't ban users, just look at what MS did. Making rainbow colour posts and telling me to shut up, if I would have been an admin I surely banned her.

I do understand that flamebaits aren't welcome anywhere in this forum, but there should be an allowance to go at least a bit offtopic over there.

If you would have read the rules, you would know it: "We here at Miraigamer enjoy random blabbing and chitchat, but within certain boundaries. What we like to see more are well-thought out and planned replies, including but not limited to using correct spelling and grammar."

That's right for the offtopic as well for the spam, I already posted my opinions. And thats how it will work, just see the thread in the Satellite Lounge.

As for the new rules, please make a list of what rules are going to be changed and what are going to be added. I will talk with SkyeWelse about that.

 

I was posting in threads when I was a mod "Stop the spamming." or even opening a thread for the warning, everyone read it and stopped the spamming. That's how it works if you are LUCKY. Because as a moderator I can't ban users, just look at what MS did. Making rainbow colour posts and telling me to shut up, if I would have been an admin I surely banned her.



If you would have read the rules, you would know it: "We here at Miraigamer enjoy random blabbing and chitchat, but within certain boundaries. What we like to see more are well-thought out and planned replies, including but not limited to using correct spelling and grammar."

That's right for the offtopic as well for the spam, I already posted my opinions. And thats how it will work, just see the thread in the Satellite Lounge.

As for the new rules, please make a list of what rules are going to be changed and what are going to be added. I will talk with SkyeWelse about that.

1. Yes, but you should try to look at it from our point of view as well. You and Orfvar once said that spam was really getting over the top and from that point I did reduce my spam rate by over 60%, and so did a lot of others. But you never mentioned that those rules applied to both sections and in fact, you didn't close the flames for fun topic I made, nor quite a few spam topics. In relation to other forums, the official rules are moderate to strict as compared to the low enforcement we were used to. It's like in 2 days Antarctica becomes the Sahara desert.

EDIT: Erm... http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/39645/
That was what we assumed the "new" rules were.

2. That's the same as point one, while that's what the rules state, "intelligent", "constructive" and "not very helpful" are all in the eyes of the beholder, just like what MS and DB said at the very beginning of this topic. One might have mixed up their facts before making a post while sincerely hoping to help and add to the discussion. All the same, that post is still not constructive or helpful because it has no worth in terms of leading the discussion forward.

3. I just think you should post it somewhere appropriate, because not everyone checks out the Just As Planned topic. ._.

4. Hmmm... fine. That should be open for discussion here though, before we can come up with a list that suits most people.

 

Firstly, those rules were made WAY back when this place had virtually nothing to moderate about it. Back then SW was probably enough for the whole boards. Now however, some of those rules, especially the definition of spam, doesn't seem the right thing. How does it matter if the posts are composed of one line or ten if they don't make sense anyway, or if they actually add something constructive to the topic?

Also, not everyone here are video-game freaks. I personally am not one, which is why I am lost for speech beyond Cave Story and LF2 and a few more titles whenever someone asks me what games I enjoy. It's really not a very helpful rule about the signatures because most of us have generic sigs or something based on other stuff we enjoy. So why the rule about videogame-based sigs?

I think those rules were originally written up to apply more to the GameFlaws forums than just the Cave Story ones, back when the site was more of a joint effort than it was mostly just the Cave Story bit. GameFlaws looked like it was originally designed for serious discussions and most forums with a hard-set purpose don't allow much room for spam or sillyness because that just promotes idiocy and bad reasoning. I still think most of them make sense though, and that a complete re-write isn't needed; just a bit of a fix-up to put them back in the necessary context.

Moreover, the IMG code is disabled there, which is an obvious measure to enable us to lighten up the rule enforcement there.

Uh wut? This doesn't really make sense. If anything the IMG code should be enabled there to promote the postings of pictures if it's the off-topic forum not the other way around.

I do understand that flamebaits aren't welcome anywhere in this forum, but there should be an allowance to go at least a bit offtopic over there.

Yeah a bit never hurt anybody, but at the moment it's ALL SPAM IS ALLOWED ALL SPAM HAS ALWAYS BEEN ALLOWED HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE OTHERWISE. Off-topic doesn't have to = auto-spam, just 'not really related to Cave Story' stuff. And such a forum shouldn't exist, there's no reason for it.

The obvious solution to Garde calling the "Kohaku vs whatever" posts offtopic is to make a new thread for such stuff which would only last a page or so because the scope of discussion itself is limited in such stuff. Shouldn't we, as a family, think of all this before pointing fingers on each other and saying "you spammed so you deserved to be warned" or "so and so has been bitching about his whole stay, so ban him"?

Applying the rules still have to start somewhere though. I really think that after the dust settles we can all relax a bit and understand what is acceptable and what isn't but right now I think it's better if we just try to keep it at a minimum for a while. A week would be enough. That isn't excuse though to say "oh well I haven't spammed for a while now it's okay to do it again", it isn't a points system or something. But I do think all this focus on purely spam is a bit unnecessary because there are worse things that should be considered first (flaming, trolling, etc). If they go a good portion of the spam will go with them.

And please, don't bring the personal arguments back here. PM's were used for a reason, now don't untie what has been knotted in. If you have something to add to or argue with my opinion, feel free, but don't pick names unnecessarily or that defeats the whole point of this post of mine.

Alright then, but if having another discussion is going to get anywhere, and some changes are ultimately produced, we all have to adhere to them and not just turn a blind eye when it suits us. I'm sick of seeing "But but but it's okay for him to spam/flame/troll because he's funny about because I said so because I don't want to deal with the only slightly negative consequences" and calling everybody a hypocrite the moment they mention something because they're not blooming Jesus perfect. Just because somebody else does something isn't an excuse. If this is discussion is to work it needs to be about what is best for everyone and not going off on tangents when the obvious is stated.

Seeing as this is still my thread and all: If you can't be bothered to discuss your opinion properly then don't. It isn't that bloody hard to not-do something.
EDIT: This last bit is @ everyone before somebody gets mad at me >_>

 

I think those rules were originally written up to apply more to the GameFlaws forums than just the Cave Story ones, back when the site was more of a joint effort than it was mostly just the Cave Story bit. GameFlaws looked like it was originally designed for serious discussions and most forums with a hard-set purpose don't allow much room for spam or sillyness because that just promotes idiocy and bad reasoning. I still think most of them make sense though, and that a complete re-write isn't needed; just a bit of a fix-up to put them back in the necessary context.

Agreed. I should have been more clear with my point: Most of those rules made sense to me, it's only the one or two that seemed outdated (I've mentioned those already).

Uh wut? This doesn't really make sense. If anything the IMG code should be enabled there to promote the postings of pictures if it's the off-topic forum not the other way around.

That was basically my take on why SW would disable the IMG code if he expected the S Lounge to be full of detailed 100 sentenced posts.

Applying the rules still have to start somewhere though. I really think that after the dust settles we can all relax a bit and understand what is acceptable and what isn't but right now I think it's better if we just try to keep it at a minimum for a while. A week would be enough.

That would kill off the activity because we've all got lives too. We're not gonna set our cell phones to a remind us to start posting a week from now. It's about the time any change needs to set in. If we don't post within that time, we'll never know what we should do and what we shouldn't

That isn't excuse though to say "oh well I haven't spammed for a while now it's okay to do it again", it isn't a points system or something. But I do think all this focus on purely spam is a bit unnecessary because there are worse things that should be considered first (flaming, trolling, etc). If they go a good portion of the spam will go with them.

Which was exactly my point. Even rules have an order of priority and by pointing fingers at every mild spam, we're leaving room to ignore other more malicious offences.

I'm sick of seeing "But but but it's okay for him to spam/flame/troll because he's funny about because I said so because I don't want to deal with the only slightly negative consequences"

lolwut? Nobody ever associated spammage with wit, all we were saying is that it's okay to spam as long as we kept it where it should be kept.

Seeing as this is still my thread and all: If you can't be bothered to discuss your opinion properly then don't. It isn't that bloody hard to not-do something.

Not sure if you meant me by that, but why the hell would I bother myself with such long posts if I weren't bothered to discuss my opinions properly?

EDIT: Okay, got it.