If you put 3 existing things from mods into vanilla cave story...

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Mar 1, 2019 at 6:20 PM
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Modding has created some great moments that might fit vanilla Cave Story. If you were tasked with adding a few of these from Existing mods to the next official version of Cave Story, what would they be?
It could be a mod weapon, an area, a new enemy, music, item, art, altered mechanics, npc, easter egg, etc.

Also, how and where would you incorporate it into Cave Story if you have an idea?
 
Mar 1, 2019 at 7:24 PM
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1. Shotgun (video game deluxe)
Like, this would be very obvious from me because I actually really enjoy the weapon in the mod, but its own recoil can definitely make platforming more interesting, and can probably even contribute to faster times in the Sacred Grounds (Specifically, Hell - B2)!

2. Raven (Ama/The Raven)
"Why specifically her, if you can just have any character in her spot?" I've always loved the concept of TSC bosses, and even attempted them myself, but due to vanilla limitations, they won't go as clean as originally intended, especially due to either having your iframes reset indefinitely, or not taking damage at all during a TSC event. @Slither made the first good TSC boss thanks to a couple modifications and we need more like Raven, tbh.

3. Iron Bond
The mod, not the item. Now I'm no expert on how game features work, but I'm pretty sure when there's a "Curly Story" feature in the game, people are gonna want Curly's side to the thing, similar to Blue Shift and Opposing Force for Half-Life, rather than 3 bonus save slots for exactly the same game, but with extra lines of dialogue. At least Cave Story 3D is more honest than the 4 versions of CS+ with adding three extra save slots by including Classic Mode instead. Nicalis was able to give her her own story in 1001 Spikes, a game that doesn't even originally involve her, and with the game modes like Boss Rush, Sand Pit, or even Wind Fortress, I'm pretty sure they could take a few liberties for writing up her end of the story.
 
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Mar 2, 2019 at 2:04 AM
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1. Shotgun (video game deluxe)
I think you meant to reference Noxid's Crystal Caves mod for the Island contest, as that was the first mod to use shotgun

As much as I am... rather bored of the "Cave story But Different" approach, I think there's some things that could be done to actually make the game better and worth playing through again.

1.My money system hack
Money is cool, I think it should be added back maybe like it was originally in beta. I understand why it was removed, but I could see it being re-worked in better.

2. Bigger levels
We've already seen this done well in CS redesign. Let's bring it back bigger and better. While pixels level design isn't bad, there's a lot to be desired in terms of detail, there's only one layer to work with and one background layer for the background with very linier options. By making bigger levels this idea entails allowing multiple foreground and background layers, as well as more detail in levels with the tile layers.

3. Better leveling system
We've seen this done in Revenge of Ballos and Critter Defense Tower, having lvl 4 weapons and level 5 weapons would be cool in conjuncture with the leveling system and bigger levels that would make for a really cool mod imo.

These three features stacked on top of each other work hand in hand really well. Finding hidden shops on giant maps, having to buy refills on health using money because health isn't nearby. Having the ability to buy badges with money that slowly regens health, make you deal more damage, give you a small partner that attacks (like a critter!) something that would let you jump higher ect. there's a lot of room to work with on that one.

I want to cheat and offer up a 4th thing that while not working hand in hand with the original 3, could really help the game.

4. Better graphics
I've said this before, but the graphics in CS are.... passable at best, and overtly simplistic and lazy at worst. I mean I realize the game was made by one guy but I see a lot of people praising the art in the game when it's one of the weakest parts of the game. Yes it's something of a feat when Pixel did everything else as well, but compared to actual pixel artists you can find on twitter and pixel lounge today, CS's art stands at about high D tier to be quite honest. The game's resolution could be shrunk down to half it's size and almost no detail would be lost, possible for a few characters but that's quite literally it.

Seeing some high A tier art in the game would be really cool, especially tacked on top of all the other features I've mentioned.


In hindsight I think I've quite literally explained what hollow knight is. If you haven't, please play that game, it's basically better cave story lmao
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 4:37 AM
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In hindsight I think I've quite literally explained what hollow knight is. If you haven't, please play that game, it's basically better cave story lmao
You were supposed to shill my game Blink you're describing my game.

I agree with Blink for the most part, but I myself would've removed the level system entirely or changed it to be more like Kero Blaster's.

Cave Story is way too linear for today's standards.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 4:59 PM
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@BLink
Were the graphics really that bad? For a 2D pixely game? With risk of sounding like the Daisuke defense force, I thought the art was good.

I’m no connoisseur in pixel art, but working with the low pixel count sprites kinda limits the amount of detail to be included. Exercising restraint by excluding details to make some sprites stand out more (Most of Quote’s sprite colors bring the same hue, also his head is a big white box) or to keep it easily identifiable could be seen as a plus from a game design point of view.

I do agree the graphics can and should be done better. I would love to see an actual “SS-plus ultra tier” pixel artist make something truly worth splooshing and splashing over.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 5:58 PM
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cave story doesn't not need to be linear because its not meant to be a metroidvania
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 6:00 PM
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@BLink
Were the graphics really that bad? For a 2D pixely game? With risk of sounding like the Daisuke defense force, I thought the art was good.

p368640-0-solmockup.png

p368640-1-mockup1a.png

p368640-2-dragonrider.png

p368640-3-cgwinterstarlight.gif


Yeah, no, the art in CS is pretty bad. I mean it could look good to somebody who's never seen any pixel art ever but blehhhh.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 6:33 PM
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Yeah, no, the art in CS is pretty bad. I mean it could look good to somebody who's never seen any pixel art ever but blehhhh.
This is an most unfair comparison. Cave Story's graphics are defenitely not the best but just because it's not as good as these examples doesn't mean it's bad by default. Might as well call bread bad because fries are good.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 6:47 PM
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Man, Maplestory must really look like a masterpiece to BLink, then. And I thought that game has terrible graphics!
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 7:09 PM
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And I thought that game has terrible graphics
Maplestory has good sprites at face value, but when you look at the way they're used, it's garbage.

Cave Story's style is what Pixel's style is, which is fine and all, but Pixel doesn't have an anti aliasing fetish designs his sprites to use minimum colors and to use minimum anti aliasing (Look at his rock spriting tutorial, it was real simple)
As the Pixel Art Person™ I can say that if Cave Story were made today it would need to look alot nicer than it originally did, even if it's not the sprites themselves, it would be the variety. Large mods like the Jenka's Nightmare remake utilized extended tilesets that give each level a feeling of depth and variety, and theoretically, we could get to the point of just making entire 3D backgrounds with the kinda shit Blink did for TW.
Cave Story could've been alot better but it was designed at a time when most computers wouldn't really be able to handle it if it were any larger or high spec.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 7:51 PM
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Yeah, no, the art in CS is pretty bad. I mean it could look good to somebody who's never seen any pixel art ever but blehhhh.
You men are disgusting. Your unrealistic expectations of pixel art in limited canvas sizes is the only thing you think about. Are they just hunks of data to you?
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 7:53 PM
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unrealistic expectations
Industry standard*

Pixel art is a fine tuned process with many practices that are essentially treated as law.
I myself love anti aliasing and selout, but as a wise woman once said : You can't handle any artstyle that isn't your own Jade
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 8:45 PM
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This is an most unfair comparison. Cave Story's graphics are defenitely not the best but just because it's not as good as these examples doesn't mean it's bad by default. Might as well call bread bad because fries are good.

Let me follow your logic real quickly:
Cave story's art = not as good as the examples I posted = the examples I posted ARE good.
This mean Cave Story's art (at least according to what you've said) is NOT good.

I mean, you can argue that they are not bad and that's fine but considering that I just think they are somewhat worse than you do (we aren't like on the opposite side of the spectrum.) doesn't really make me see why you're coming down so hard on me for having a only slightly differing opinion?

I also don't see how bread and fries are tied together in the slightest. One is made from flour, the other is made from potatoes, both can taste damn good when done right, and both taste good when dipped into some light vinegar sauce. (Though I'd suggest the bread be toasted at least.)
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Man, Maplestory must really look like a masterpiece to BLink, then. And I thought that game has terrible graphics!
Literally what.

I just googled some images and:
1. It isn't pixel art, so I don't see what you're trying to get at?
2. It looks... uhh ok I guess? It looks like Farmville but a bit better/ more detail in shading
I don't have anything bad to say about it but it... just is what it is. I don't know enough about art that isn't pixel art to really say what should be done to make it look better, but something looks off about it for sure.
//==============
I do agree the graphics can and should be done better.
*suggests how to make the art better*
You men are disgusting. Your unrealistic expectations of pixel art in limited canvas sizes is the only thing you think about. Are they just hunks of data to you?
bruh.jpg
//==============
Industry standard*
I think this statement alone sums up everything perfectly.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 9:10 PM
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Cave story's art = not as good as the examples I posted = the examples I posted ARE good.
This mean Cave Story's art (at least according to what you've said) is NOT good.
That's entirely subjective, what the fuck. It's like comparing aquafina to simply orange, you can't just do that.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 9:28 PM
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That's entirely subjective, what the fuck. It's like comparing aquafina to simply orange, you can't just do that.
It's pretty easy to follow the point I'm making here. It's that Miccs thinks the art is "definitely not the best", and I think it's also is "definitely not the best" (I think it's bad and I'm sure Miccs is implying that it's just a bit below being good, but that's a bit beside the point.) I'm just asking why he's being abrasive about it since we don't even think that differently about the subject. Technically I completely agree with him that it's not the best, so there's no real reason for this debate?

I also don't understand the apples/oranges approach at all. It's all pixel art, yes some of it is stylized differently but It's not so different it's literally uncomparible. Unless you're trying to point out that the pictures I originally posted are so much higher in quality, that comparing it to CS isn't possible because of the huge gap in quality, then I might see your point, but I wouldn't even go that far.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 9:58 PM
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Who actually gives a flip about pixel art? Out with the old and the broken. Voxel art is the new hotness.
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 10:14 PM
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Who actually gives a flip about pixel art? Out with the old and the broken. Voxel art is the new hotness.
aka minecraft/legos/roblox
 
Mar 2, 2019 at 11:28 PM
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I mean, you can argue that they are not bad and that's fine but considering that I just think they are somewhat worse than you do (we aren't like on the opposite side of the spectrum.) doesn't really make me see why you're coming down so hard on me for having a only slightly differing opinion?
I defenitely don't have issues with your opinions cause that's always a bad thing but it's more about how you say the game's looks are bad because really good pixel art exists. I guess it makes sense if your standards are higher if you are exposed to amazing pixel art all the time but it still feels a bit weird to me.
 
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