Cave Story with a fourth ending

I see, I guess that's understandable. If they suit your play style and you're willing to go to the trouble to level them up, then it makes sense that you would prefer to use the Snake or Machine gun.

 

I see, I guess that's understandable. If they suit your play style and you're willing to go to the trouble to level them up, then it makes sense that you would prefer to use the Snake or Machine gun.

In the other hand though... I have seen that having at least one weapon that won't drop to lvl1 after entering certain areas, I think it would be better to have Spur. I am not sure yet.

Before I'll start completing "truly" your mod, I am aiming to do either ending 2 or 3. Why? Well... I'll have then at my disposal that wonderful and lovely Blade and that would make things a little bit easier. It will be at lvl1 when I enter the hell, but it would do so much damage.

I decided to take a look a little around and hear other peoples opinions about Snake, Machine Gun and Spur. I saw following:

Snake: Although its great because it can shoot through walls and its deadly against Monster X and has still great uses, it may give hard time to win Ballos, unless you are fast keyboard button presser (like me) by that: I mean pressing some keyboard with a great/good speed to spam more and more ammo's rapidly. Its like "spamming" the same keyboard button. The weapons that also benefits for quick keyboard button pressing is Polar Star, Fireball Gun and partially Rocket Launcher (especially if they hit to their targets.) Also: Snake takes the Fireball Gun away so changing weapons will be faster. That is why Snake could suit my style. In the other hand though: I start Hell with ALL weapons on lvl1 once I enter the Hell, which can make things difficult.

Machine Gun according to many opinions: Is the 2nd best choice and makes the game easier on first half but the other half will be harder. Unless I can make it lvl3 on Hell, it will be difficult to do much with it. But once it is at lvl3, it will be useful against Ballos and could give you extra maneuverability. However: Just like Snake, I must begin Machine Gun from lvl1, which can make things harder.

Spur is the (as far as I can tell) the best choice because of its immunity for lvl1 drops and unlimited ammunition. It will make first half of the game harder but the other half easier especially against bosses. As you described to me: Shooting Ballos with charged beams can make a quick work of him and actually of any bosses. However: It will require multi-concentration because while you must keep other button pressed down and time your beams well, you must also concentrate controlling your Booster which is exactly one of my biggest weakness: I have hard time to concentrate two things at the same time (oh don't make me start to talk about 3 and 4 things...) which is why I see Spur bad choice to me... Even though I can still use the spamming technique with Spur, it will be much less efficient than Snake for example.

I am still uncertain which weapon to take before entering hell, but odds are on Spur's and Snake's favor. Maybe I'll find a way when I'll first try to complete the game with King and Toroko dead. (I'm sorry ;c) partly because I am still beginner at Cave Story. Its the first time I actually play the game.

Then the weapons I really don't bother to try collecting (it makes quick-switching weapons harder.) Bubble gun because its simply too weak even at level 3. Nemesis is a powerful weapon, but I wouldn't change it to Blade because Nemesis becomes weaker on every level and avoiding to level up Nemesis is very hard (to me at least) which is why I'd stick with the Blade. Plus: Blade does intense damage. Although: Especially against Monster X: Snake is also very great choice.

PS: I am sure anyone can be able to spam the same keyboard button but be warned that your hand/finger MAY feel some pain afterwards

Also I am curious: How come that All-Cure works if you give it to Professor Booster when you are on your way to ending 4 but not when going to ending 3? Is it so Professor Booster could survive so you could prevent the Boulder Chamber event and possibly to make the game different from that part forward? Nonetheless: I like the idea of it. But thinking "logical way:" Could it be that in 4th Ending event: Professor Booster has much more lenient wounds than in 3rd Ending path? That's at least the most logical reason I can come up with xD oh and about All-Cure pill: I saw that normally in Ending 3 path, you should give the pill to the Physician and/or nurse, but in your mod, that apparently isn't necessary because when you get All-Cure pill, Curly is already away. Does this mean I can basically keep All-Cure pill for the rest of the game or will I not get to the "hell" unless I give the All-Cure pill to Physician?

Oh and one more thing: When I throw Blade at level 3, do you think the spirit that appears is Arthur's Spirit? Because instead of purple overcoat, it is blue. Or then its combination of both: King in blue overcoat I saw that Blade was deadly effective against the Ironhead boss.

Update: OMG YES I DID IT! I defeated Hell and Ballos at last with the help of Snake, Blade and Super Rocket Launcher. I admit I was wrong: Nemesis would have been more effective in Hell but... I just couldn't anyways make myself giving up Blade because I own revenge that I promised King. I also wanted to avenge for other dead friends... Such as Toroko. I finally gained the 3rd ending. Now that it is done, I shall finish the 4th ending. btw during the 3rd ending: Misery reveals to Quote and Curly that Misery was the one who originally is at fault that Demon Crown was made... Does he say the same in 4th ending? Also: I have now 2 more favorite songs as well: Running Through Hell and Moonsong. <3

My feelings after I defeated Hell and Ballos? 100% combination of exhaustion, pride and enjoyment.

 

As you described to me: Shooting Ballos with charged beams can make a quick work of him and actually of any bosses. However: It will require multi-concentration because while you must keep other button pressed down and time your beams well, you must also concentrate controlling your Booster which is exactly one of my biggest weakness: I have hard time to concentrate two things at the same time (oh don't make me start to talk about 3 and 4 things...) which is why I see Spur bad choice to me... Even though I can still use the spamming technique with Spur, it will be much less efficient than Snake for example.

I see, well that makes sense that the spur wouldn't be ideal for you if you have trouble concentrating with you booster maneuvering when you're holding a charged spur shot. In that case another weapon would indeed be better for you.

Also I am curious: How come that All-Cure works if you give it to Professor Booster when you are on your way to ending 4 but not when going to ending 3?

Well first off, you can only give the cure-all to him if you're going for the fourth ending. In the fourth ending, you don't fight Curly, so she's not as badly wounded, so she doesn't need the cure-all to get better and head to the boulder chamber. Also, if you see Booster fall but then go out and do a bunch of stuff (such as go through with the fight with Balrog), then you can still give Booster the cure-all, but he won't recover because you're too late. The idea is that you have to get to him quickly before his wounds get too bad.

I saw that normally in Ending 3 path, you should give the pill to the Physician and/or nurse, but in your mod, that apparently isn't necessary because when you get All-Cure pill, Curly is already away. Does this mean I can basically keep All-Cure pill for the rest of the game or will I not get to the "hell" unless I give the All-Cure pill to Physician?

Yeah, you can actually hang onto the cure-all for the rest of the game if you want, and you can still get any of the 3 original endings, but you won't be able to get the 4th ending if you don't give it to professor Booster. You can actually come back later and give the cure-all to Dr. Gero if you want. In this mod, I added a few extra bits of dialogue for if you come back to him after initially getting out of the Labyrinth based on whether you gave the cure-all to Booster and it saved him, you gave the cure-all to Booster and it didn't save him, or you kept the cure-all this whole time and finally gave it back:

Oh, you found it! And about time too. Better late than never, I guess.

So, you've sure been gone a while. Did you find any medicine? ..... You know, that medicine was property of this clinic. And as such, I do not approve of use of it without our permission. But I'll let you by since it went to a good cause.

So, you've sure been gone a while. Did you find any medicine? ..... You know, that medicine was property of this clinic. And as such, I do not approve of use of it without our permission. And you weren't even able to save him...

Oh and one more thing: When I throw Blade at level 3, do you think the spirit that appears is Arthur's Spirit? Because instead of purple overcoat, it is blue.

I suppose that's possible, but I'd say it's probably King.

during the 3rd ending: Misery reveals to Quote and Curly that Misery was the one who originally is at fault that Demon Crown was made... Does he say the same in 4th ending?

Yes, that same bit of dialogue happens.

 

*I see, well that makes sense that the spur wouldn't be ideal for you if you have trouble concentrating with you booster maneuvering when you're holding a charged spur shot. In that case another weapon would indeed be better for you.

**Well first off, you can only give the cure-all to him because you can only keep the cure-all if you're going for the fourth ending. In the fourth ending, you don't fight Curly, so she's not as badly wounded, so she doesn't need the cure-all to get better and head to the boulder chamber. Also, if you see Booster fall but then go out and do a bunch of stuff (such as go through with the fight with Balrog), then you can still give Booster the cure-all, but he won't recover. The idea is that you have to get to him quickly.

***Yeah, you can actually hang onto the cure-all for the rest of the game if you want, but you won't be able to get the 4th ending if you don't give it to professor Booster. You can actually come back later and give the cure-all to Dr. Gero if you want. In this mod, I added a few extra bits of dialogue for if you come back to him after initially getting out of the Labyrinth based on whether you gave the cure-all to Booster and it saved him, you gave the cure-all to Booster and it didn't save him, or you kept the cure-all this whole time and finally gave it back:





****I suppose that's possible, but I'd say it's probably King.

*****Yes, that same bit of dialogue happens.

*Yeah sadly Spur isn't for me. But when I tried with Snake... Oh my gosh: I dealt great ammount of damage (against bosses as well) and it made killing Hell's Messengers so much easier because I could shoot through walls. Also: People warned that Snake isn't very good choice as it will drop to lvl1 but hey: Snake is effective even on level 1: Think of it at lvl1 as "rapid shooting force field" because projectiles moves only slight ammount of distance but it does it very rapidly and through walls, which makes it great to fight against Hell's Messengers and top of all: With fast keyboard spamming, I really did damage and efficent work. If I'd take the Snake in your mod, then the only weapon I'll have with that will be in that case: Super Rocket Launcher. So I'll go with only two weapons but I think I'll manage because then I quick-switching will also be so much easier. I won't take Bubble Gun because its just too weak.

Btw I am just curious: If I take the Snake from shop owner at chance of Polar Star and Fireball Gun at Labyrinth, does that mean I cannot grt those "three stars" that surrounds Quote item? You know I forgot its name. No: Its fine to me because it didn't really help me when I went to Hell... In fact: It actually made things more difficult.

**Ah so that instant he is seen falling, I must go to him and give Cure-All. If you are trying to get Ending 3, doesn't it matter how fast you do this, Booster will end up dead and only if you have done everything that 4th ending requires up until that point, you can still save him? What I did was that I skipped fight with Curly, I returned all puppies to Jenka and went straightway to Boulder Chamber. I wonder though: What would have happened if I haven't gave away Cure-All? Would "path to hell" be closed because I did not do something that Cave Story originally would have required (giving Cure-All to Dr.Gero) or was that part unnecesarry, since I never fought against Curly? Oh and about Augumented/Undead core, I get your idea in your mod. Doctor was originally interested of the Core anyways and in both ways: Ending 3 and Ending 4 path, the island won't start falling after he gets the Core. So one way or the oyher, he prevented island falling until he is defeated as he took over the Core and died.

***Yeah I noticed this. I gave Dr.Gero All-Cure pill before I went to fight against Doctor because I did not want to abandon 3rd ending path and I thought that Cure-All was supposed to give Dr.Gero.

****Hm... I just doubt that because Mimiga spirit eyes aren't red either. Maybe its younger King or somrthing but I dunno either.

*****Sorry I meant Balrog told Quote and Curly that Misery was originally at fault for creating Demon Crown. If he does the same during the 4th ending, do you think that Quote and Curly just wants to keep that fact as a secret and that is why neither of them or Balrog told to others that Misery did it not Ballos.

 

Btw I am just curious: If I take the Snake from shop owner at chance of Polar Star and Fireball Gun at Labyrinth, does that mean I cannot grt those "three stars" that surrounds Quote item? You know I forgot its name.

You can only get the whimsical star if you have the Spur; you can't get it if you have the snake or machine gun.

Ah so that instant he is seen falling, I must go to him and give Cure-All. If you are trying to get Ending 3, doesn't it matter how fast you do this, Booster will end up dead and only if you have done everything that 4th ending requires up until that point, you can still save him?

No matter what, you can save Booster by simply jumping over the gap and not talking to him, but this will only trigger the 3rd ending. You absolutely have to give the cure-all to Booster in order to get the 4th ending.

What I did was that I skipped fight with Curly, I returned all puppies to Jenka and went straightway to Boulder Chamber. I wonder though: What would have happened if I haven't gave away Cure-All? Would "path to hell" be closed because I did not do something that Cave Story originally would have required (giving Cure-All to Dr.Gero)

No, the cure-all has no bearing on whether or not you can enter hell. In this mod you can keep the cure-all the whole game and still get the 3rd ending.

Sorry I meant Balrog told Quote and Curly that Misery was originally at fault for creating Demon Crown. If he does the same during the 4th ending, do you think that Quote and Curly just wants to keep that fact as a secret and that is why neither of them or Balrog told to others that Misery did it not Ballos.

Well, I'm not sure that it was that important of a detail. Misery has that scene of redemption in the 4th ending, so I think that's the main part that mattered. The fact that she's the one who made Ballos create the crown in the first place was a detail that simply didn't come up. If it was an important detail that came up though, I doubt that Quote or Curly would have felt compelled to keep it a secret.

 

*You can only get the whimsical star if you have the Spur; you can't get it if you have the snake or machine gun.

**No matter what, you can save Booster by simply jumping over the gap and not talking to him, but this will only trigger the 3rd ending. You absolutely have to give the cure-all to Booster in order to get the 4th ending.

***No, the cure-all has no bearing on whether or not you can enter hell. In this mod you can keep the cure-all the whole game and still get the 3rd ending.

****Well, I'm not sure that it was that important of a detail. Misery has that scene of redemption in the 4th ending, so I think that's the main part that mattered. The fact that she's the one who made Ballos create the crown in the first place was a detail that simply didn't come up. If it was an important detail that came up though, I doubt that Quote or Curly would have felt compelled to keep it a secret.

*Ah I see. Well personally I like Snake the most so yah.

**Ah okays I'll remember that.

***Oh okays. I thought it had lol.

****Maybe it isn't. I was just being curious because basically Misery didn't told the truth towards the others but... Well as they say: "Some things are best to remain hidden" or something like that.

What is your personal opinion about the Hell? I think it had good music and it was (in my opinion) the hardest level on Cave Story.

 

What is your personal opinion about the Hell? I think it had good music and it was (in my opinion) the hardest level on Cave Story.

It was definitely a memorable part of the game, and definitely the hardest level. Very hard the first time, it took me a few days to beat it. Also very intense. I agree that it had good music, that was part of what made it so intense for me. Sometimes when I'm slightly cold and I have nothing better to do, I'll play hell because it gets my blood pumping and warms me up.

 

It was definitely a memorable part of the game, and definitely the hardest level. Very hard the first time, it took me a few days to beat it. Also very intense. I agree that it had good music, that was part of what made it so intense for me. Sometimes when I'm slightly cold and I have nothing better to do, I'll play hell because it gets my blood pumping and warms me up.

Yeah I agree lol it truly was most intense, hardest and wonderful experience to play through a Hell.

Also think about it: If you succeed on winning Hell and release Ballos from his long torturing pain, you will be rewarded with the "best ending" and huge pride of succeeding... I mean: You did everything. You never cowardly flew away, you never allowed innocent one's die (aka: let island fall) you saved even those who have been hostile towards you with the island. Perhaps they (creatures that were enemies) were returned to their original and better states after some while has passed after Ballos was killed.

Since 3rd ending wasn't really that good, I'd expect to be rewarded as heart warming and lovely ending as your 4th ending <3 it signed the "true good ending" of the Cave Story

The only song that (in my list) surpasses "Running Hell" is "Eyes of Flame."

Have btw my favorite "remix" of the "Running Hell" song. Its a guitar version:

Also here is another one. Its piano remix:

Yup: this song (Running Hell) totally reminds me every time I play it and when I hear it what stage I am playing through: The hardest and "true final level" of the game with everything being merciless.

When I first time played this level, I had to restart the game after few retries and get the "Snake" instead of "Spur." Why? Because I found this stage and Ballos simply too hard to complete with Spur. Spur just didn't suit my play style. I feel bad giving up one of the highest damaging weapon and weapon that has immunity to "drop level 1" effect but... I just couldn't do it with it.

In total: I think it took from me over 15 retries with Spur and with Snake: 5 times with two of them lasting over 20 minutes and one (and the one I succeeded) lasted over 30 minutes.

 

Good! I'm glad that my ending gave you that fulfillment. And I believe I have heard that piano remix of Running Hell before, but that was my first time hearing that guitar remix. Both excellent remixes.

 

Good! I'm glad that my ending gave you that fulfillment. And I believe I have heard that piano remix of Running Hell before, but that was my first time hearing that guitar remix. Both excellent remixes.

Yeah I agree about remixes.

And yes... I haven't yet played Cave Story through with Ending 4 requirements... But I am 100% sure that Ending 4 will give the true reward I have been searching for when playing and completing Hell. I really love to see that everyone is alive in that ending especially King and Toroko... Do you think that they (plus other Mimigas) have managed to make some kind of newly established friendship with Sakamotos and through that possibly with the surface world.

Because if that's so as well... I am really glad that this ending exist and pays off so well.

 

I really love to see that everyone is alive in that ending especially King and Toroko... Do you think that they (plus other Mimigas) have managed to make some kind of newly established friendship with Sakamotos and through that possibly with the surface world.

It's quite possible. That's just left to the player's imagination, really.

 

It's quite possible. That's just left to the player's imagination, really.

Well if we think about the "best ending" I suppose that's possible... I mean: After all they helped Mimigas to defeat the Doctor and now that he is dead with Ballos, the island should have no longer aggressive beings... I mean: At least I think that "enemies" that were in island were mostly corrupted by Ballos and Demon Crown.

 

It's quite possible. That's just left to the player's imagination, really.

Hello there again.

I now own Cave Story+. I am glad to say that you can pick from options the "original" graphics and music. I can now play Cave Story on full screen which is great! But I am a little confused: How I can download the 4th ending to it? Do I need to copy and paste the "4endings" file into the Cave Story+ "data" folder? You said I must use the Plus Porter but I am confused that how I can download the 4endings using that program?

So if you can, could you please tell me ste-by-step: How to do this correctly? Because I really have no idea how to do this without some help.

 

Hello there again.

I now own Cave Story+. I am glad to say that you can pick from options the "original" graphics and music. I can now play Cave Story on full screen which is great! But I am a little confused: How I can download the 4th ending to it? Do I need to copy and paste the "4endings" file into the Cave Story+ "data" folder? You said I must use the Plus Porter but I am confused that how I can download the 4endings using that program?

So if you can, could you please tell me ste-by-step: How to do this correctly? Because I really have no idea how to do this without some help.

Before I tell you how to install it, first I want you to go to "Help" -> "View readme" in Plus Porter, and see if you're able to follow the instructions under the "SETTING UP" and "APPLYING PORTS" headings. If that doesn't help, then here's what you do:

Spoiler

To use Plus Porter, you first want to go to File -> Open CS+ Directory, and browse to your Cave Story+ installation. To apply a port that has already been made, go to "File" -> "Open port...", browse to the folder of the port you wish to open, and click "Open." After the port has been loaded, go to "File" -> "Apply port", and a window will open up listing all mods currently installed in that game of CS+, and the order in which they'll be listed in the challenge menu (with the one at the top appearing on the main menu). You are able to arrange the mods in whatever order you want the challenge menu to list them, and then click the "Apply port!" button to apply the port to your Cave Story+ installation. Exit out of plus porter, and you'll now be able to experience the mod in Cave Story+.

I suppose the way I designed Plus Porter wasn't the most intuitive to a lot of people. It seems that a quick tutorial video on how to do this might actually be useful to some people, I'll have to consider this.

 

Before I tell you how to install it, first I want you to go to "Help" -> "View readme" in Plus Porter, and see if you're able to follow the instructions under the "SETTING UP" and "APPLYING PORTS" headings. If that doesn't help, then here's what you do:

Spoiler

To use Plus Porter, you first want to go to File -> Open CS+ Directory, and browse to your Cave Story+ installation. To apply a port that has already been made, go to "File" -> "Open port...", browse to the folder of the port you wish to open, and click "Open." After the port has been loaded, go to "File" -> "Apply port", and a window will open up listing all mods currently installed in that game of CS+, and the order in which they'll be listed in the challenge menu (with the one at the top appearing on the main menu). You are able to arrange the mods in whatever order you want the challenge menu to list them, and then click the "Apply port!" button to apply the port to your Cave Story+ installation. Exit out of plus porter, and you'll now be able to experience the mod in Cave Story+.

I suppose the way I designed Plus Porter wasn't the most intuitive to a lot of people. It seems that a quick tutorial video on how to do this might actually be useful to some people, I'll have to consider this.

I tried but I cannot sadly do that. Here is how things happened in my end:

After I found the cave Story+.exe folder (I use Steam one) and verified it, I was able to get access to all Plus Porter tools.

Next I was told to find the "port." This is very tricky because I tried to search some "ports" but I have no idea basically what I am searching because every time I go to Cave Story+ folder and/or 4endings folder, I never find any program or file that I could "open" so I am kind of lost... What is that I am trying to search? If someone could specify what are these "port" files, it would help a lot. Because that would make my search a lot more smoother and easier.

The other option is that you could do a tutorial video how to use Plus Porter. Because seeing how to use and how to do different steps in action would at least to me: Immediately help me out and I believe that after I'll see you doing (or telling me now) "How to Apply Ports" step, I can handle the rest that you have mentioned on "readme" file.

 

I tried but I cannot sadly do that. Here is how things happened in my end:
Next I was told to find the "port." This is very tricky because I tried to search some "ports" but I have no idea basically what I am searching because every time I go to Cave Story+ folder and/or 4endings folder, I never find any program or file that I could "open" so I am kind of lost... What is that I am trying to search? If someone could specify what are these "port" files, it would help a lot. Because that would make my search a lot more smoother and easier.

All you do is just select the folder, and then open. Alternatively, you can select the "mods.txt" file.

The more that I think about it, the more I realize that this is a bit counter-intuitive. I guess I'll unofficially add "slight video tutorial" to my to-do list.

 

All you do is just select the folder, and then open. Alternatively, you can select the "mods.txt" file.

The more that I think about it, the more I realize that this is a bit counter-intuitive. I guess I'll unofficially add "slight video tutorial" to my to-do list.

Oh now I got it. Thankies c:

But now I have found few flaws currently:

- I can't save the game in Cave Story+ because when I try to start the game, I cannot do that because it is considered as "challenge" and not "normal gameplay" kind of thing. So if you die once, you'll have to start all over again.

- ESC button doesn't work properly. Normally it should bring out "do you really want to exit?" but it brings the "backpack" screen instead.

- I cannot play with "original" graphics enabled because the game considers Fourth Ending as a challenge mode.

- The annoying "replay" thing keeps being on the screen and disturbing my gameplay.

 

Oh now I got it. Thankies c:

But now I have found few flaws currently:

- I can't save the game in Cave Story+ because when I try to start the game, I cannot do that because it is considered as "challenge" and not "normal gameplay" kind of thing. So if you die once, you'll have to start all over again.

- ESC button doesn't work properly. Normally it should bring out "do you really want to exit?" but it brings the "backpack" screen instead.

- I cannot play with "original" graphics enabled because the game considers Fourth Ending as a challenge mode.

- The annoying "replay" thing keeps being on the screen and disturbing my gameplay.

I agree with you, but because my PC sucks, CS+ crashes because it doesn't have an icon... yeah somebody help please.

 

My apologies for forgetting to address this earlier.

Oh now I got it. Thankies c:
I can't save the game in Cave Story+ because when I try to start the game, I cannot do that because it is considered as "challenge" and not "normal gameplay" kind of thing. So if you die once, you'll have to start all over again.

This is likely because you're using a newer version of CS+. In the version I'm running, my configuration makes sure that it's a challenge with saved slots, and it shares save slots with Curly Story. I'm afraid I don't know how to address this issue since my version of CS+ is much earlier.

ESC button doesn't work properly. Normally it should bring out "do you really want to exit?" but it brings the "backpack" screen instead.

NICALiS is probably responsible for this glitch.

I cannot play with "original" graphics enabled because the game considers Fourth Ending as a challenge mode.

Unfortunately, this has been an issue with CS+ since the earliest version. I don't completely understand why original graphics doesn't work with any of the challenges, but this is once again NICALiS' fault.

The annoying "replay" thing keeps being on the screen and disturbing my gameplay.

Once again, this is a result of things getting broken because you're running a newer version of CS+. My version was released back before the replay feature for challenges worked.

I agree with you, but because my PC sucks, CS+ crashes because it doesn't have an icon... yeah somebody help please.

I don't completely understand why you think not having an icon is what makes the game run. If you want help on getting the game to run, you'll need to give us more details about your situation.

 

I don't completely understand why you think not having an icon is what makes the game run. If you want help on getting the game to run, you'll need to give us more details about your situation.

Well when I launch the game it just crashes, and on my old pc (also running XP SP2) it works fine... but that computer broke and I'm having trouble playing the game. And the file I run doesn't have any icon, I have another game without an icon and it doesn't work either, but worked fine on my old pc.