• Hey everyone happy Christmas Eve we're aware of what's happened with the source code so to keep this simple absolutely don't post it on the site or use it to make mods with (it's not particularly preferable toward this end anyway) and tread lightly in general until we see how this settles, thanks to all and have a great holiday season -DT

Arthur: who really was he?

Jan 4, 2009 at 4:41 AM
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Awesome. Wow. I'm speechless.
You sir won the day, the year, whatever. So many good theories...
I agree with you until the "research team" part. I don't think this part can be explained that well, there aren't enough details...

Anyway, it would be that everything was planned by Jenka since the beggining. She's a powerful witch, after all. And she has the "I know everything cause it's my plan"-aura that some characters from other games have (e.g. Belthasar from Chrono series).
 
Jan 4, 2009 at 6:22 PM
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Nice work, X. You = Awesome. Oh, and by the way: requesting an image of Arthur fending off the Red Demon.
 
Jan 4, 2009 at 6:30 PM
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It'd be cool if someone with 1337 pixel art skillz was to make Arthur's sprite.
 
Jan 4, 2009 at 7:40 PM
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GuilhermeEin said:
Awesome. Wow. I'm speechless.
You sir won the day, the year, whatever. So many good theories...
I agree with you until the "research team" part. I don't think this part can be explained that well, there aren't enough details...

Anyway, it would be that everything was planned by Jenka since the beggining. She's a powerful witch, after all. And she has the "I know everything cause it's my plan"-aura that some characters from other games have (e.g. Belthasar from Chrono series).
*getting offtopic*
woot! As for the research team thing...

What I'm having a problem understanding is why such a dangerous place is left alone by the countries of the world after all that happened 10 years ago...

Example :
Let's say Atlantis was discovered in the Artic. Scientists from around the world go there and discover a new race of people living there and amazing ancient technology...
Scientists study the technology until they make a huge discovery... There is something powering Atlantis that could be harnassed for the good of humanity! Except, the people living there won't give the technology to the world, because it's too dangerous.
Well then the countries of the world decide that this discovery is too important to the future of humanity and decide to send an international force to take the technology ...
They succeed and defeat the Atlantians and the scientists who believed it was too dangerous... The team who finds and takes the technology discover a huge side effect when taking the technology...
And to summarize, it ends up causing a great disaster upon the world.
They are able to stop it, and end up killing most of the Atlantians; but not without losses themselves.

Even though the technology is believed to have been destroyed, and most Atlantians are dead, the remaining people of Atlantis are few; only their leaders and some children are left mainly.

what happens in the next 10 years?
Because the public eye is on Atlantis, the people force the governments of the world to leave them alone?
Perhaps the scientists have gotten enough technology from the island to study to satisfy their leaders?
Maybe Atlantis now protects itself? Only those invited can make it to Atlantis?

.. Perhaps ever since the incident just a few scientists have been allowed to go to Atlantis at a time, to research?
Or would they just let a small group come after 10 years have passed?

hmmmmmmmm no evidence that I know of yet... ;(

As for Jenka :o I don't know if she's all-powerful anymore... I don't see any evidence, but if you think of Jenka like a triforce lol She's Knowledge/Wisdom; and Ballos is Power... [Quote could be Courage? lol]

p50376-0-cast.gif

Here are some sprites made a couple years ago by Epsilon, Showing like a young King, Toroko, Arthur [the one with brown ears...]; and a Sakamoto Sr., younger Booster, Quote with bandana, and Curly with her hat :o
 
Jan 5, 2009 at 5:31 PM
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The team who finds and takes the technology discover a huge side effect when taking the technology...
And to summarize, it ends up causing a great disaster upon the world.

This is likely the case... Maybe the Demon Crown owner at the time destroyed the entire world. Only a few people survived and these people happen to be the Sakamoto family with Booster and Date.. Maybe more people, who knows.

One thing that bugs me is how far the this research team (Itoh, Momorin, etc) made into the island. It's known that they landed at the Balcony. From there you can take the route Balcony->Last Cave->Plantation->Outer Wall->Mimiga Village etc.

Momorin and Itoh are seen in Plantation, with some kind of backup plan in case things went wrong. Sue, her brother and Booster might have gone a little farther until they got captured by the Doctor...

And now the last piece, where was Booster all the time? I don't remember he saying where he comes from... And I don't remember why Kazuma was in the shelter either...
Maybe i'm just missing things, bah.


About the sprites: the Mimigas are awesome. I liked Toroko and Arthur :o Curly is also awesome.
 
Jan 5, 2009 at 6:19 PM
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GuilhermeEin said:
This is likely the case... Maybe the Demon Crown owner at the time destroyed the entire world. Only a few people survived and these people happen to be the Sakamoto family with Booster and Date.. Maybe more people, who knows.

One thing that bugs me is how far the this research team (Itoh, Momorin, etc) made into the island. It's known that they landed at the Balcony. From there you can take the route Balcony->Last Cave->Plantation->Outer Wall->Mimiga Village etc.

Momorin and Itoh are seen in Plantation, with some kind of backup plan in case things went wrong. Sue, her brother and Booster might have gone a little farther until they got captured by the Doctor...

And now the last piece, where was Booster all the time? I don't remember he saying where he comes from... And I don't remember why Kazuma was in the shelter either...
Maybe i'm just missing things, bah.
I always thought that the whole expedition was stationed on the Balcony, maybe also Plantation. When Date found the Crown, he forced the others to help him with his research (or what he needed them for) and once they completed their "duty", Date got rid of them: Misery Mimiga'd the harmless ones, Balrog tossed the rest off the Island. Momorin, as we know, somehow survived and returned to the Plantation, Itoh, Kazuma and Sue ran away once they could, and Booster... well, since the teleporter he walks out of leads to the Plantation Prison, I figure that he was either locked up and ran away or hid once he realized Date was wiping out the expedition, and after the dust settled he teleported to Grasstown.

Oh, and just a thought: Maybe the teleporters were set up by a previous Crown Wearer, and if my "Cthulthu is a hologram-using guide" theory is correct, his duty was to inform travellers where they were. </off-topic>
 
Jan 5, 2009 at 11:16 PM
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This is likely the case... Maybe the Demon Crown owner at the time destroyed the entire world. Only a few people survived and these people happen to be the Sakamoto family with Booster and Date.. Maybe more people, who knows.
I find it hard to believe that even a floating island even with the power of the Demon Crown and frenzied creatures at their control could destroy the world...
But, how the War is mentioned from 10 years ago makes me believe it really was a significant event. Not just a battle... But how could the island take on the world?
Well here's one thing to consider. It has only been 10 years since the War. And yet somehow the knowledge of the Red Flower's power over the Mimigas has vanished from even the Mimigas themselves... How can this be?
Do Mimigas have really short life spans? ... I don't think so...
I think that the just about the entire adult Mimiga population was wiped out in the War. That means the Mimigas that survived were simply children, growing up without parents...
We saw how powerful Toroko became, and I don't think she was very old at all, even Sue as a transformed Mimiga human was pretty kung fu powerful lol
So maybe... the adult Mimigas who could have been warriors, hunters, or full of knowledge about the island maybe... Perhaps they turned into creatures much more dangerous than the ones Quote had to deal with in Cave Story.
Still, even if the adults were much more powerful, causing a War?

And if the countries of the world can create robots and helicopters and hover bikes! Wouldn't they probably have big weapons, like missiles or lasers of some kind? So they could attack the island directly when it became a threat...?
That means maybe there is some way the island is protected..

Just checked Curly's dialogue, she says the robots were sent from countries on the earth's surface... Not all countries just countries. So some countries must have opposed the strike against the island. Although once Miakid got ahold of the Demon Crown, she says he began his assualt on the Earth... He probably forgot his alliegences to the countries that he worked for at that time... Maybe...

In any case, he had frenzied Mimigas and maybe some creatures from the island to help him do battle... [maybe the sky dragons too?]
Also, I wonder if the Red Flower works on Earth's creatures? If that is the case... then to get more soldiers all he had to do is grow more red flowers...
From what the Doctor said though it wasn't strong enough to affect humans, but it should work on animal-like creatures...
If he did anything like that, it'd basically be like turning the world's creatures against the world. Now THAT would be a War...
The Mimigas are probably the best of the soldiers though since they are intelligent and seem to be related to the origins of the island maybe...

*cough* and back to Arthur : He could have been one of the eldest of the children/teenagers left, and perhaps he DID know about the Red Flower, and maybe even a safe way to use it? I'd say there's a good chance Arthur met Quote and Curly back then too... If any of the Mimigas knew the whole picture of what happened it would have been Arthur. Of course he dies to the Doctor or Misery probably... We saw how King could make Balrog ouch! :o No defense against magic though...

One thing that bugs me is how far the this research team (Itoh, Momorin, etc) made into the island. It's known that they landed at the Balcony. From there you can take the route Balcony->Last Cave->Plantation->Outer Wall->Mimiga Village etc.
I wonder though, did they Originally land at the balcony? We know the helicopter is there, but that means the Crown would have been right there in front of them immediately. And it IS a big island... There is no evidence to say they landed elsewhere, but moving the helicopter later isn't really that hard to believe.
Sue's letter says the Doctor was there to meet their medical needs... and did so until he found the Demon Crown... So, most likely it was at least some amount of time before he found the crown... Otherwise that line about 'and did so at least until he found...' shouldn't be there.
Also I have to at least bring up the fact that in the opening cutscene when the Date finds the Crown... it's all dark! Unnaturally dark. You Could reason that maybe those ruins were buried, or something and that could explain why the Crown was hidden. [or there's a second crown room, or the balcony is in a hidden cliff... I mean when the island is collapsing, Rocks!!! Are falling from the sky!! [The sky is falling!] lol so that could mean that area could be well hidden...

Also you'd think that the scientists from 10 years ago probably had places setup as well, unless they were all destroyed... It'd be more likely they'd land at a place with a computer already setup with a landing pad :o No evidence of course... but it says humans used to live on the island, scientists. I'd imagine a lot of stuff used to be on the surface of the island... maybe. Although after the War happened survivors would have had to hide underground to be safe...
Jenka seems at home underground... but recall that Last Balcony is on the surface, with ruins of what used to be some place. And where there's one ruin there is probably more scattered across the island! Maybe...

Momorin and Itoh are seen in Plantation, with some kind of backup plan in case things went wrong. Sue, her brother and Booster might have gone a little farther until they got captured by the Doctor...

And now the last piece, where was Booster all the time? I don't remember he saying where he comes from... And I don't remember why Kazuma was in the shelter either...
Sue's letter states that she arrived with Booster, her mom, brother, and various assistants... [meaning Itoh and maybe a few more...]
As for Booster's whereabouts.. Well, the Doctor might have kept him close, probably on the Balcony area. Remember that house that leads to hell had Booster's notebook, that tells about his Booster technology being used to explore the island... and even talks about v2.0... "If he lives long enough..." From that phrase you could guess that he might have already been under duress. As in under the Doctor's orders...
How did Kazuma arrive in that one place? Well after escaping the prison full of Mimiga, there's that teleporter right there... I'd have to assume that's how he got there.
One of the Mimigas behind bars say this :
"There used to be a couple humans in here too, but I haven't seen them around... Wonder if they got away."
That makes me think Kazuma used that teleporter that is conviently right there which leads to that place lol [unfortantely it seems it's a one way trip for whatever reason...] I'm not sure if Booster used the same teleporter to get there or not though. He seems to have knowledge of teleporters, as he can fix the one in the labyrinth...

About the sprites: the Mimigas are awesome. I liked Toroko and Arthur :o Curly is also awesome.
Yeah they are cool :o I would use them in my mod if I could ever figure out the story of 10 years ago...!

Oh, and just a thought: Maybe the teleporters were set up by a previous Crown Wearer, and if my "Cthulthu is a hologram-using guide" theory is correct, his duty was to inform travellers where they were. </off-topic>
Interesting theory :o Although remember at least that one Cthultu is the real macoy... er he rescues Curly from the water and puts her in bed...

@GuilhermeEin - Nice avatar :o
 
Jan 6, 2009 at 4:17 AM
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Wow theories about the war make me speechless... All your points are valid, maybe what we just need is a prequel lol

Your other points are also mind-blowing... You seem to know more about the game than Pixel does lol

The prefab house (the building in Balcony) may be there for 10 years... When the war happened, humans were likely to land in the top of the island (Balcony) and stabilish a base there (Prefab house and other houses...?). The book inside the prefab house doesn't seem to belong to Date though. Maybe it's Momorin's, Itoh's or somebody else. I don't think the Doctor has any reason to record his adventures on the island like that...

One more thing: DO THE ***** PREQUEL FOR THIS GAME. you have the guts lol
 
Jan 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM
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GuilhermeEin said:
One more thing: DO THE ***** PREQUEL FOR THIS GAME. you have the guts lol

I always wanted to make my own Cave Story mod :p
A prequel actually..! Named 'Cloud Story'... But, I never made it because I never could settle on the plot...
Here's the mod thread : http://www.cavestory.org/forums/threads/152/
It's in the mod section... except there is no mod for it ;O But this thread has gotten me interested again to try to solve the loose ends... *tries to lay out the mod plot once more*
 
Jan 6, 2009 at 3:09 PM
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T-Jack said:
Jump over? Yeah right, with a chunk of stone as big as yourself strapped to your back. Not posible even if you're an ugly rabbit monster...
Easy. Build a ladder or something like that and they can simply skip the rest of the graveyard.

X-Calibar said:
I always thought King's Blade was originally Arthur's Blade... But, now that I look back and read again, I can't find any evidence to support that.
No, I guess there's no evidence, but it's still a reasonable assumption.

X-Calibar said:
[aren't mushrooms near a grave a bad sign or something according to folklore?]
I have no idea. What sort of folklore, though? If it's Japanese folklore, I'd say you're very likely onto something. Otherwise, it's hard to say.

X-Calibar said:
Well here's something I just realized... Why did Quote wake up...
Probably he has some kind of self-repair system, and it just finished its work?

X-Calibar said:
I'd think there's a good chance that Quote or Curly knew Arthur from the 10 years ago...
I dunno... why would they have known Arthur?

X-Calibar said:
Although there's the direct possiblity that Kazuma... accessing THAT particular computer, in the shut off part of Grasstown could have had some kind of link to Quote.
Hmm, yes, I suppose Kazuma's transmission could have been a trigger awakening Quote.

X-Calibar said:
Or the rest of the world has been severely destroyed... [noone can do anything about the island]
I don't think this one is likely.

X-Calibar said:
Let's say Atlantis was discovered in the Artic.
It's much more likely to be discovered in the Antarctic. :p

X-Calibar said:
As for Jenka :p I don't know if she's all-powerful anymore... I don't see any evidence, but if you think of Jenka like a triforce lol She's Knowledge/Wisdom; and Ballos is Power... [Quote could be Courage? lol]
Probably not all-powerful, but then I doubt she ever was. She's likely still very powerful, but possibly not at peak capacity since she has apparently been working to keep Ballos contained.

X-Calibar said:
p50376-0-cast.gif

Here are some sprites made a couple years ago by Epsilon, Showing like a young King, Toroko, Arthur [the one with brown ears...]; and a Sakamoto Sr., younger Booster, Quote with bandana, and Curly with her hat :o
I like those... who's the Mimiga in the second row?

X-Calibar said:
Do Mimigas have really short life spans? ... I don't think so...
Toroko and Arthur both survived those 10 years. (Arthur died just before the game began.) I think King also survived those 10 years. So they clearly do not have very short life spans; however, it's possible they don't live quite as long as humans on average.

X-Calibar said:
I wonder though, did they Originally land at the balcony? We know the helicopter is there, but that means the Crown would have been right there in front of them immediately. And it IS a big island... There is no evidence to say they landed elsewhere, but moving the helicopter later isn't really that hard to believe.
Sue's letter says the Doctor was there to meet their medical needs... and did so until he found the Demon Crown... So, most likely it was at least some amount of time before he found the crown... Otherwise that line about 'and did so at least until he found...' shouldn't be there.
Also I have to at least bring up the fact that in the opening cutscene when the Date finds the Crown... it's all dark! Unnaturally dark. You Could reason that maybe those ruins were buried, or something and that could explain why the Crown was hidden. [or there's a second crown room, or the balcony is in a hidden cliff... I mean when the island is collapsing, Rocks!!! Are falling from the sky!! [The sky is falling!] lol so that could mean that area could be well hidden...
I think it's more likely that they did originally land there, but that the entrance to the Throne Room was hidden in some way – perhaps simply vegatation covering the entrance, or maybe a rockfall blocking it. Or both.

X-Calibar said:
Interesting theory :o Although remember at least that one Cthultu is the real macoy... er he rescues Curly from the water and puts her in bed...
McCoy?

I don't really like that theory, actually. I think it's either a cult or a hermit who gets around a lot.
 
Jan 6, 2009 at 7:19 PM
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Celtic Minstrel said:
I have no idea. What sort of folklore, though? If it's Japanese folklore, I'd say you're very likely onto something. Otherwise, it's hard to say.
I was unable to find this folklore on google... My guess is I heard this on TV, although I'm not sure what I saw it on... [discovery channel or was it a fiction TV show?! lol] I know I've heard it somewhere though...

Probably he has some kind of self-repair system, and it just finished its work?
Hmm... that seems like a big coincidence to me. 10 years of self-repairing? Happens to complete in the hour of need? Plus we've seen how hearts can repair Quote's health lol
My guess would be that the damage wasn't general body damage, but memory damage. Physical repairs probably can be done rapidly, but fixing the software... well we know that Quote awakens without much memory.
So I'd guess that the self-repair probably finished a long time ago, but rebuilding the memory could have met a deadend or was taking a long time.
Unless of course the gunsmith had been tinkering with Quote or something.

I dunno... why would they have known Arthur?
I guess there's no real reason he would... But he seems to be the most important mimiga when he was alive. Which leads me to believe he was alive during the 10 years ago. And with that house full of technology, a teleporter, computers, red flowers... It seems like his family or at least that house was the center of something. I don't see how Sue could have brought that stuff there...
Sue arrived by washing up in the reservoir according to the fisherman... My guess is that the equipment was already there. The Doctor would probably have been the first human to visit them, as we can see he gains the trust of most of the mimigas. I don't see any evidence to suggest that anyone else has been staying at Toroko's house.
I bet Arthur probably knew how to use the computer equipment and teleporter though. Just a wild guess.
So being one of the few remaining Mimigas, an important one at that, and assuming he has been around since the 10 years ago... I'd think Q or C could have crossed paths with Arthur.
I guess I have to ask who kept the surviving Mimiga children safe?

Hmm, yes, I suppose Kazuma's transmission could have been a trigger awakening Quote.
Don't forget I think it's because of that specific computer, rather than just a transmission on the network...

Probably not all-powerful, but then I doubt she ever was. She's likely still very powerful, but possibly not at peak capacity since she has apparently been working to keep Ballos contained.
I think she used to be very powerful. Everyone seems think Jenka is...
But, we still never see Jenka do a single thing besides through her dogs. (oh! And the life pot) Balrog is able to take the warehouse key without so much as a dent in his toaster.. And we don't see Jenka even leave her house ever..
hmmmm

I like those... who's the Mimiga in the second row?
I think he said it's King practicing with the sword :p

Toroko and Arthur both survived those 10 years. (Arthur died just before the game began.) I think King also survived those 10 years. So they clearly do not have very short life spans; however, it's possible they don't live quite as long as humans on average.
I think so too, although the only that says he remembers the war is the old Mimiga. He probably has met Curly or Quote when he talks about not all robots were bad... some even seemed to have a heart... [or something like that]

I think it's more likely that they did originally land there, but that the entrance to the Throne Room was hidden in some way – perhaps simply vegatation covering the entrance, or maybe a rockfall blocking it. Or both.
I don't know... I got the impression from Sue's letter that they had been researching the island for at least a week or more before the Date finds the crown himself. I could imagine him piloting the helicopter to that place once he finds out where it is...
I mean who drives the helicopter at the end? Momorin? Booster? I can't recall who is shown looking out the helicopter... (don't tell me Itoh pilots it lol)

It's much more likely to be discovered in the Antarctic. :p

McCoy?
lol between my arctic and macoy I guess I was a little out of it when I wrote it :o
 
Jan 7, 2009 at 5:32 PM
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Ok, so now I got REALLY confused!

Who are these guys?!

diph.php

I found them in the Mimiga Village tileset and I have never seen them in-game. Or I'm getting too old.
 
Jan 7, 2009 at 5:50 PM
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GuilhermeEin said:
Ok, so now I got REALLY confused!

Who are these guys?!

I found them in the Mimiga Village tileset and I have never seen them in-game. Or I'm getting too old.
Hmmm... That thin Mimiga might be Arthur. He was a true hero, after all, and the statue doesn't look like any other Mimiga seen in-game. He was also the only celebrated Mimiga mentioned. Anyway, I don't remember seeing any of those in CS, but I guess they were not used anywhere.
 
Jan 7, 2009 at 6:11 PM
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GuilhermeEin said:
Ok, so now I got REALLY confused!

Who are these guys?!

diph.php

I found them in the Mimiga Village tileset and I have never seen them in-game. Or I'm getting too old.

Never seen those outside of mods... [unless I'm blind!]
Hmmm so they are official? Well at first glance, the left Mimiga statue looks like a before picture of a Mimiga [large], and the right statue looks like a Mimiga after the Red Flower... But... if he's not on the Red Flower then he's a huge macho Mimiga!! The middle statue looks like a plant or wings to me. [unless it's a broken statue]

Maybe they would have been statues made after great Mimigas in their history..?
[nice find btw! I didn't know...]
 
Jan 7, 2009 at 6:21 PM
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My guess is: First is Arthur, second is his weapon (A sword or something) and third is the "Red beast" he fought. Just guesses. The third one looks really baddie.

EDIT: after searching through more tilesets, I found another mimiga statue that I never saw.
diph.php


This one was in the Outer Wall tile... Maybe I never saw it because I never got the nikimaru counter...
 
Jan 7, 2009 at 10:36 PM
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GuilhermeEin said:
My guess is: First is Arthur, second is his weapon (A sword or something) and third is the "Red beast" he fought. Just guesses. The third one looks really baddie.

EDIT: after searching through more tilesets, I found another mimiga statue that I never saw.
diph.php


This one was in the Outer Wall tile... Maybe I never saw it because I never got the nikimaru counter...
:confused: Nope never saw that one before either..!
 
Jan 8, 2009 at 9:06 AM
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Then he's a huge macho Mimiga! XD

GuilhermeEin said:
My guess is: First is Arthur, second is his weapon (A sword or something) and third is the "Red beast" he fought. Just guesses. The third one looks really baddie.

EDIT: after searching through more tilesets, I found another mimiga statue that I never saw.
diph.php


This one was in the Outer Wall tile... Maybe I never saw it because I never got the nikimaru counter...
It was in Genesis : Sky, remember?



Or maybe that macho guy is the Red Demon, but why they made a statue of an enemy would not make sense.
 
Jan 8, 2009 at 11:18 AM
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freezit4 said:
.......
Or maybe that macho guy is the Red Demon, but why they made a statue of an enemy would not make sense.
"This is how the red demon looks like when we found him dead. He is big and looks unbeatable but yet our hero succeed to kill him".
It makes sense.
 
Jan 9, 2009 at 3:59 PM
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GuilhermeEin said:
Ok, so now I got REALLY confused!

Who are these guys?!

diph.php

I found them in the Mimiga Village tileset and I have never seen them in-game. Or I'm getting too old.

- don't you think its a guideline or warning in using the red flower?

warning label - mimiga - red flower - steroid mimiga
 
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