Jun 5, 2011 at 1:30 AM
Indie game enthusiast
"What is a man!? A miserable pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!"
Join Date: Apr 18, 2006
Location: Forever wandering the tower...!
Posts: 1796
Pronouns: he/him
My six hundred threescore and six post.
April 25, 2003 - Demonbane JP
December 20, 2004 - Cave Story JP
Over a year before Cave Story's release, a japanese visual novel called "Demonbane : Deus Machina" came out. Full of references to HP Lovecraft, it could very well have influenced Cave Story if Pixel had played it. (It seems like a more likely popular source of learning about Cthulhu at that time than reading the actual books... but it's just a guess)
I just played the recently released english version (18+), so that's where this theory is coming from...
...
Oh and as for the "enigmatic natives called Cthulhu". I don't think anyone has been able to figure out their purpose, although we've tried in this thread : http://www.cavestory.org/forums/threads/2336/
This thread will be focus on the HP Lovecraft/Demonbane similarities found throughout the island and game, rather than focusing on just the enigmatic NPCs.
Possibly it can gather ideas from yet another aspect of where Pixel was coming from.
Theories :
April 25, 2003 - Demonbane JP
December 20, 2004 - Cave Story JP
Over a year before Cave Story's release, a japanese visual novel called "Demonbane : Deus Machina" came out. Full of references to HP Lovecraft, it could very well have influenced Cave Story if Pixel had played it. (It seems like a more likely popular source of learning about Cthulhu at that time than reading the actual books... but it's just a guess)
I just played the recently released english version (18+), so that's where this theory is coming from...
...
Oh and as for the "enigmatic natives called Cthulhu". I don't think anyone has been able to figure out their purpose, although we've tried in this thread : http://www.cavestory.org/forums/threads/2336/
This thread will be focus on the HP Lovecraft/Demonbane similarities found throughout the island and game, rather than focusing on just the enigmatic NPCs.
Possibly it can gather ideas from yet another aspect of where Pixel was coming from.
Theories :
The island itself could be something like an artificial vessel to Cthulhu.
First Cthulhu, is a Great Old Demon-god. The size of ... yes, you guessed it. An island.
It is a slumbering deity supposebly forever dreaming after being sealed away at the bottom of the deep sea.
In its throne city the size of a continent... R'lyeh.
Now the classic Cthulhu is kind of an octopus, tentacle like humanoid, entity or something; that spreads insanity or would turn the world into a land of demons.
It seems to have some kind of connection to the underwater Elder Gods and minor-deities like Dagon or the Hydra.
Cthulhu has many followers... such as the Deep Ones. Creatures or anthropormorphic sea-creatures.... For instance :
Yes... the mysterious natives. Although it seems more like they are wearing a costume than it being part of their skin...
Still, these followers from the game were somewhat normal looking, although strange... or Other.
I'd wager that the Cthulhu from Cave Story, are followers or could even be Deep Ones of some degree.
In the game Demonbane, the followers of Innsomouth (sea gods worshipers) were relatively harmless, secluded, and practiced their strange and horrible rituals far from prying eyes.
Their ultimate goal however, was the revival of their deities. But, for the most part, they are just pawns by themselves.
My theory on the Cthulhu natives of Cave Story, is that they too are pawns... and have probably acted in the past under perhaps Annachponae's guidance. His strange look, like an old dragon or gator, could easily fit the profile of a Deep One/a servant of Cthulhu. My bet is that, back at that time; these natives were in full-force... Possibly trying to ressurect their deity. Bring their religion to the world. Or maybe searching for R'yleh, the Throne of Cthulhu, lost and sealed beneath the seas.
In the case of Cave Story, R'yleh could mean the place that the island originally lifted off from. If the Island is full of such amazing discoveries... what lies at the place of its birth? Is it really just an island that lifted off from the ocean? Or part of a larger land mass...?
Now that you have a little background on Cthulhu. Let me move on...
In Demonbane, there is an artificial island complete with amazing systems, ancient magic, and a giant beating heart, and tons and tons of tunnels and places.
In Cave Story, there is a floating island that is probably artificial with amazing systems, huge waterways, underground technologically advanced bases; not to mention the Core, which is referred to as the Heart of the Island. (Plus tons of caves and places.)
If they wanted to ressurect Cthulhu or create an artificial Cthulhu, there would be no better place than the floating Island.
In the Demonbane, the ressurected Cthulhu, turned those vast tunnels into parts of the god, and through them ran a great amount of blood... And through the Island flows a Great amount of water...
Continuing...
The one door on the island that is alive... The Possessed Door. A sealed cave, that houses the slumbering Quote.. and a Gunsmith capable of creating the ultimate gun, the Spur.
In Demonbane there is an Outer God that are far beyond Cthulhu. It is :
Or :
The Gate of Yog-Sothoth or The Ancient One/The One Who Leads/'Umr at-Tawil, The Guardian of the Gate or perhaps just a part of Yog-Sothoth itself.
It isn't hostile really, but it opens the way to Other places.
Although one might think it unlikely, perhaps you could say Quote and the Gunsmith are in a place where time has no meaning. Sort of a seperate fissure of reality. Quote the one person who is capable of defeating Ballos/ending the Demon Crown; and the creator of a gun more powerful than any other... just happen to be in the same cave, just above Mimiga Village?
In any case, even if it was just a sealed cave; rather than something greater. There is something else to comment on :
The Spur.
The gun shoots the ultimate beam that defeats tons of enemies with ease.
Cthugha. It's a deity whose brilliance is greater than the sun. I don't know what it is exactly, but the incredible power of Cthugha is one of the ultimate powers in Demonbane. In fact it is harnassed at one point into a gun. A gun that shoots a brilliant beam, hotter than any other; and defeats everything in its path... Sound familiar?
But, also in Demonbane there is an icy goddess. Who can take the form of a mighty dragon of ice. Ithaqua.
That power is also placed in another gun in Demonbane. A gun that shoots many shots, allowing you to hit the enemies vitals with ease.
Somehow this reminds me of the Nemesis. "Lightning of the Goddess." The beams of Ithaqua do look somewhat lightning-ish...
This is going out on a limb but, the Nemesis shoots rubber duckies when powered up. That somehow reminds me of water and ice.
You could say a beam of absolute zero is like a bolt of lightning...
Anyways, most importantly, Ithaqua and Cthugha/Nemesis and Spur seem to be opposites.
Spur takes a long time to charge, and you get only one shot. Nemesis gives you full power as fast as you want, although if you feed it more energy it loses power.
And with Curly and Quote together you can do both at once... which is the ultimate attack in Demonbane...
Let's move on...
...
Grimoires. Books that can accomplish Other things. Things that are impossible.. A few could even take human form.
This might sound crazy, but is Booster a grimoire?
Why does Booster's prefab house have a book that can "Turn back time a bit". That's kind of major. It is found at the same place with the note Booster leaves... If I only survive long enough, I can complete version 2.0 booster...
Why does Booster's survival change the course of the Best or Normal ending?
He appears in what appears to be a glimmer, if it happened, you chase him down, it becomes true... he will die as well.
If you ignore the glimmer it is but a possiblity? His glasses are unbroken, and he was never hurt..?
Also...
Why does he know Jenka?
How does Booster escape at just the right time to meet up with Quote and Kazuma?
Why does he have the jetpack that allows you to navigate hell? (Shantak, from Demonbane, the final power needed to reach the end. To fly...)
What's with those glasses!?
If Booster is more than he appears, that would explain a few things.
Another mystery :
The Dusty Notebook with the knowledge to save Curly... found in the secluded Waterway Cabin, with a computer capable of writing messages even when nobody is there to send them? To help Quote in a time of need?
It doesn't seem to be Booster who sent the message from his dialogue later...
I don't think a Grimoire is involved then... but still something Other is happening...
At first I thought maybe Quote simply interfaced with the PC, and it was helping him. But, it talks about I used to keep a notebook ... etc. Wife bore child (pixel's).
If you conclude it is PIXEL sending that message to help Quote. Then what the heck where does he fit into the game? Was he a robotics engineer who helped with the waterway's construction?
Yes, yes too serious I know. But, still, if you want to stay in character, you have to figure out how it fits together.
And Lastly :
I have to say the description of how the Island attacks during the War 10 years ago in Cave Story, sounds similar to the Illusionary Heart Mother (floating island thing) from Demonbane, which launches tons of flying and ground robots (or in CS' case, Mimigas and Sky Dragons?).
First Cthulhu, is a Great Old Demon-god. The size of ... yes, you guessed it. An island.
It is a slumbering deity supposebly forever dreaming after being sealed away at the bottom of the deep sea.
In its throne city the size of a continent... R'lyeh.
Now the classic Cthulhu is kind of an octopus, tentacle like humanoid, entity or something; that spreads insanity or would turn the world into a land of demons.
It seems to have some kind of connection to the underwater Elder Gods and minor-deities like Dagon or the Hydra.
Cthulhu has many followers... such as the Deep Ones. Creatures or anthropormorphic sea-creatures.... For instance :
Humans with bulging, frog-like eyes? Sound familiar?
Yes... the mysterious natives. Although it seems more like they are wearing a costume than it being part of their skin...
Still, these followers from the game were somewhat normal looking, although strange... or Other.
I'd wager that the Cthulhu from Cave Story, are followers or could even be Deep Ones of some degree.
In the game Demonbane, the followers of Innsomouth (sea gods worshipers) were relatively harmless, secluded, and practiced their strange and horrible rituals far from prying eyes.
Their ultimate goal however, was the revival of their deities. But, for the most part, they are just pawns by themselves.
My theory on the Cthulhu natives of Cave Story, is that they too are pawns... and have probably acted in the past under perhaps Annachponae's guidance. His strange look, like an old dragon or gator, could easily fit the profile of a Deep One/a servant of Cthulhu. My bet is that, back at that time; these natives were in full-force... Possibly trying to ressurect their deity. Bring their religion to the world. Or maybe searching for R'yleh, the Throne of Cthulhu, lost and sealed beneath the seas.
In the case of Cave Story, R'yleh could mean the place that the island originally lifted off from. If the Island is full of such amazing discoveries... what lies at the place of its birth? Is it really just an island that lifted off from the ocean? Or part of a larger land mass...?
Now that you have a little background on Cthulhu. Let me move on...
In Demonbane, there is an artificial island complete with amazing systems, ancient magic, and a giant beating heart, and tons and tons of tunnels and places.
In Cave Story, there is a floating island that is probably artificial with amazing systems, huge waterways, underground technologically advanced bases; not to mention the Core, which is referred to as the Heart of the Island. (Plus tons of caves and places.)
If they wanted to ressurect Cthulhu or create an artificial Cthulhu, there would be no better place than the floating Island.
In the Demonbane, the ressurected Cthulhu, turned those vast tunnels into parts of the god, and through them ran a great amount of blood... And through the Island flows a Great amount of water...
Continuing...
The one door on the island that is alive... The Possessed Door. A sealed cave, that houses the slumbering Quote.. and a Gunsmith capable of creating the ultimate gun, the Spur.
In Demonbane there is an Outer God that are far beyond Cthulhu. It is :
It seems doubtful the door is some kind of Outer God... but a certain servant to that god ... 'Umr at-Tawil ...
Or :
The Gate of Yog-Sothoth or The Ancient One/The One Who Leads/'Umr at-Tawil, The Guardian of the Gate or perhaps just a part of Yog-Sothoth itself.
It isn't hostile really, but it opens the way to Other places.
Although one might think it unlikely, perhaps you could say Quote and the Gunsmith are in a place where time has no meaning. Sort of a seperate fissure of reality. Quote the one person who is capable of defeating Ballos/ending the Demon Crown; and the creator of a gun more powerful than any other... just happen to be in the same cave, just above Mimiga Village?
In any case, even if it was just a sealed cave; rather than something greater. There is something else to comment on :
The Spur.
The gun shoots the ultimate beam that defeats tons of enemies with ease.
Cthugha. It's a deity whose brilliance is greater than the sun. I don't know what it is exactly, but the incredible power of Cthugha is one of the ultimate powers in Demonbane. In fact it is harnassed at one point into a gun. A gun that shoots a brilliant beam, hotter than any other; and defeats everything in its path... Sound familiar?
But, also in Demonbane there is an icy goddess. Who can take the form of a mighty dragon of ice. Ithaqua.
That power is also placed in another gun in Demonbane. A gun that shoots many shots, allowing you to hit the enemies vitals with ease.
Somehow this reminds me of the Nemesis. "Lightning of the Goddess." The beams of Ithaqua do look somewhat lightning-ish...
This is going out on a limb but, the Nemesis shoots rubber duckies when powered up. That somehow reminds me of water and ice.
You could say a beam of absolute zero is like a bolt of lightning...
Anyways, most importantly, Ithaqua and Cthugha/Nemesis and Spur seem to be opposites.
Spur takes a long time to charge, and you get only one shot. Nemesis gives you full power as fast as you want, although if you feed it more energy it loses power.
And with Curly and Quote together you can do both at once... which is the ultimate attack in Demonbane...
Let's move on...
...
Grimoires. Books that can accomplish Other things. Things that are impossible.. A few could even take human form.
This might sound crazy, but is Booster a grimoire?
Why does Booster's prefab house have a book that can "Turn back time a bit". That's kind of major. It is found at the same place with the note Booster leaves... If I only survive long enough, I can complete version 2.0 booster...
Why does Booster's survival change the course of the Best or Normal ending?
He appears in what appears to be a glimmer, if it happened, you chase him down, it becomes true... he will die as well.
If you ignore the glimmer it is but a possiblity? His glasses are unbroken, and he was never hurt..?
Also...
Why does he know Jenka?
How does Booster escape at just the right time to meet up with Quote and Kazuma?
Why does he have the jetpack that allows you to navigate hell? (Shantak, from Demonbane, the final power needed to reach the end. To fly...)
What's with those glasses!?
If Booster is more than he appears, that would explain a few things.
Another mystery :
The Dusty Notebook with the knowledge to save Curly... found in the secluded Waterway Cabin, with a computer capable of writing messages even when nobody is there to send them? To help Quote in a time of need?
It doesn't seem to be Booster who sent the message from his dialogue later...
I don't think a Grimoire is involved then... but still something Other is happening...
At first I thought maybe Quote simply interfaced with the PC, and it was helping him. But, it talks about I used to keep a notebook ... etc. Wife bore child (pixel's).
If you conclude it is PIXEL sending that message to help Quote. Then what the heck where does he fit into the game? Was he a robotics engineer who helped with the waterway's construction?
Yes, yes too serious I know. But, still, if you want to stay in character, you have to figure out how it fits together.
And Lastly :
I have to say the description of how the Island attacks during the War 10 years ago in Cave Story, sounds similar to the Illusionary Heart Mother (floating island thing) from Demonbane, which launches tons of flying and ground robots (or in CS' case, Mimigas and Sky Dragons?).
Make that two robots and we're talking Cave Story
