How exactly did Balrog get dragged into the whole Demon Crown affair?

Another long wandering post, but has a new idea about why Balrog was dragged into the Demon Crown affair.
(look for the >> )

Spoiler

Without looking up the actual quotes again, Ballos was able to raze his kingdom in a short period of time. What else could he do? He probably was able to heal, and perform small amazing feats. Maybe control the weather, etc. Kind of like Merlin would have been if he was open to the people.

The most interesting thing we DO know, is that he "Let his magic run wild", and it has been running wild ever since.
It does not let him die, and he cannot control it.

What kind of strange magic is that? Does the magic have a will of its own on some level? Or is it like a broken dam, water rushes through the cracks until it breaks; and it cannot be repaired. But, you would think that would make his body deteriorate, rather than become immortal... Maybe that reinforces the possibility that his magic was partially for healing? And if the butes that float around are souls of the destroyed kingdom, then his magic keeps them alive and around. Also, the Doctor comes back to life after being destroyed by taking the concentrated power of Ballos' magic. It also makes him stronger, but his sanity declines...

Perhaps that is Ballos' true magic? Though we also know he can fly, shoot lightning, change form into a giant earthen rock monster, and attact (and control?) creatures.

On the flipside, I always thought Jenka was more of your stereotypical secluded witch. I assume that she didn't live in the kingdom with her brother Ballos, as he had a family; and the quote says something about Jenka finding him after the kingdom was destroyed.
Jenka's magic might have been a little different, possibly weaker; or more likely just different, and less direct. We know Jenka was able to build the seal chamber to confine Ballos. I believe that all those skeletons in that room, are the dead from his kingdom, and she put them there to create a kind of seal of the dead, that prevents him from just flying or busting out of there. And then to keep him from having access to his great powers, there is the Core... I always assumed that Jenka made it so that the Core fed or seperated his power from him.
But did she create the Core? I am not sure one way or the other. I like to believe that the ruins of Hell, and Balcony are the remains of their destroyed kingdom. In the game it never specifies if the island was floating or not when Jenka confined him there.

Also, on Mimigas... I wonder where they came from? Being a floating island and all... And if they live close to the destroyed kingdom. We know Misery can curse a human into becoming a Mimiga... So, I used to imagine that the survivors of the kingdom were cursed by someone (Jenka? Or Misery at some point...?); and it became permanent over time.

What else did Jenka do, that we know of... She created the labyrinth, or at least set the Gaudi to work at carving it out. All in order to protect the Core...
We know that Jenka can create potions of amazing life, that fully refill your health. There is some kind of connection with puppy power too...

Though there is the movement of the Sunstones, and the attack from Omega. Was that something Jenka did? Or was it a guardian she created long before the events of Cave Story? [Like during the ten year war, take over a giant robot; and have it fight for her instead...?]

If she did do that, then... What if Curly's location close to Jenka is no coincidence. What if Curly was brought back to life by Jenka? Maybe the same thing was attempted with Quote... They are so very human-like, what if she used the same kind of magic to attempt to give them life. Though without someone like... the Gunsmith, that knows technology, it might have been for naught.

Unfortunately, the only super advanced robot we meet besides Q and C, might be the Killer Robot in the Core room, that has completely decayed... So, can't tell if Q and C's appearence is normal. It did fool Kazuma, but not Booster. Though Booster, has some kind of tie to Jenka.....

Anyway, Jenka's magic seems to be much more indirect, than Ballos' brute force effects. Healing through potions, controlling Gaudi to do her bidding, creating seals (arf arf arf), and perhaps bringing the inanimate to life (all those skulls running around, and perhaps Curly, Quote, and Omega...).

Misery's powers however mimic Ballos' in some forms. Bolts of lightning, levitation, changing the form of things... So, the question is, is that her young magic? Or is that magic granted by Ballos under the Curse...
So, that confuses me... You would think she would need the crown to access Ballos' power, if that is what gives her those Ballos like powers. And it has been mentioned at the end when she is standing on her own two feet, that maybe her power has gone away with Ballos' destruction [thus a possibility why she didn't come teleport and help]. (Though, perhaps the Seal Chamber is designed to prevent magic from escaping that place. Otherwise, why wouldn't Ballos just teleport out...)

That poses another question, getting the Demon Crown made... Could Misery really waltz into that chamber and come out again? Was the seal chamber designed specifically for Ballos? Or does it affect all magic users? ... Hard to say. If the Core drains/seperates Ballos' power, then maybe you could... Actually, I imagine the seal chamber is like a rough sea of magic. The waters are too wild to properlly teleport someone in there during the final battle. And back when the Core was active, that place probably would have been a whirlpool that suckes up all the magic.

>> Perhaps the reason Balrog was there, was that Misery needed him to get in and get out of the Seal Chamber. Since he wasn't reliant on magic, he could just Huzzah and fly out of there. If this is the case, then it lends evidence to how long Balrog has been around. [If he is a robot according to some theories, then he has been around as long as the crown at least...]

That or if Misery DIDN't have any magic, then she would definitely need Balrog to escape the chamber.



... Getting long again!

Okay, now did Jenka create the island...? Well, she didn't create the remains of the kingdom Ballos destroyed I believe. I also would like to believe that the island was not floating when it was a kingdom, otherwise... it would have been a kingdom of sky dragons and magic. Unless the island provided all of their necessities.

As for the various zones within the island... The only one that seems overly unnatural, is the Sand Zone. I like to believe, that Jenka's magic is drying up like that place. What she accomplished in the past, still stands to this day, but there is no jungle, no oasis anymore, she's become old and frail, and her magic is the same during the events of Cave Story. [Perhaps the Sand Zone was once a magical paradise within the island... it would turn to dust when the enchantments fade...]

I don't believe she created the island, but did she create the Core? That's the big question. If yes, then I ask how did the Core Base get built? The waterway...
You would think the Core would destroy any workers that attempted to build such a huge base at the heart of the island... Unless Misery prevented the Core from attacking...

But, it seemed as if the robots were attacking the Core...? SO CONFUSING

If the Core Base was there originally, as some kind of ancient technology; and the Core pre-existed deep within the land... then no Jenka did NOT create the Core, or the island. However, perhaps she had the ability to control it. Magic seems to naturally flow through it, so it might be connected to her lineage.

OR if she created the Core, and for some reason let the Core Base get built without noticing O_O... Um... well, then with Misery's help, the Core Base was created by Miakid's forces as their inner sanctum perhaps. And a means to control the island's movement. That would also mean, the crown probably did not control the Core then...

OR ... if the Core Base was created PRE-Miakid getting the Crown and Misery awakening, then... somehow the Core was not angered, or attempted to defend itself. I have to assume they drilled their way to that place, otherwise, somehow they made a way to Labyrinth safely... Then after studying the Core, they discovered the Crown's existence, with its ability to control the Core and through it the island.

I don't think there is a case where Jenka constructed the Core Base. Though there is the confusing bit about the ancient lion head grate that leads to the Waterway... I have to assume that the ancient waterway was upgraded recently when the Core base was built; otherwise Jenka wouldwwdwadafssdghkghjopisje

There's NO END!

 

Another long wandering post, but has a new idea about why Balrog was dragged into the Demon Crown affair.
(look for the >> )

Spoiler

Without looking up the actual quotes again, Ballos was able to raze his kingdom in a short period of time. What else could he do? He probably was able to heal, and perform small amazing feats. Maybe control the weather, etc. Kind of like Merlin would have been if he was open to the people.

The most interesting thing we DO know, is that he "Let his magic run wild", and it has been running wild ever since.
It does not let him die, and he cannot control it.

What kind of strange magic is that? Does the magic have a will of its own on some level? Or is it like a broken dam, water rushes through the cracks until it breaks; and it cannot be repaired. But, you would think that would make his body deteriorate, rather than become immortal... Maybe that reinforces the possibility that his magic was partially for healing? And if the butes that float around are souls of the destroyed kingdom, then his magic keeps them alive and around. Also, the Doctor comes back to life after being destroyed by taking the concentrated power of Ballos' magic. It also makes him stronger, but his sanity declines...

Perhaps that is Ballos' true magic? Though we also know he can fly, shoot lightning, change form into a giant earthen rock monster, and attact (and control?) creatures.

On the flipside, I always thought Jenka was more of your stereotypical secluded witch. I assume that she didn't live in the kingdom with her brother Ballos, as he had a family; and the quote says something about Jenka finding him after the kingdom was destroyed.
Jenka's magic might have been a little different, possibly weaker; or more likely just different, and less direct. We know Jenka was able to build the seal chamber to confine Ballos. I believe that all those skeletons in that room, are the dead from his kingdom, and she put them there to create a kind of seal of the dead, that prevents him from just flying or busting out of there. And then to keep him from having access to his great powers, there is the Core... I always assumed that Jenka made it so that the Core fed or seperated his power from him.
But did she create the Core? I am not sure one way or the other. I like to believe that the ruins of Hell, and Balcony are the remains of their destroyed kingdom. In the game it never specifies if the island was floating or not when Jenka confined him there.

Also, on Mimigas... I wonder where they came from? Being a floating island and all... And if they live close to the destroyed kingdom. We know Misery can curse a human into becoming a Mimiga... So, I used to imagine that the survivors of the kingdom were cursed by someone (Jenka? Or Misery at some point...?); and it became permanent over time.

What else did Jenka do, that we know of... She created the labyrinth, or at least set the Gaudi to work at carving it out. All in order to protect the Core...
We know that Jenka can create potions of amazing life, that fully refill your health. There is some kind of connection with puppy power too...

Though there is the movement of the Sunstones, and the attack from Omega. Was that something Jenka did? Or was it a guardian she created long before the events of Cave Story? [Like during the ten year war, take over a giant robot; and have it fight for her instead...?]

If she did do that, then... What if Curly's location close to Jenka is no coincidence. What if Curly was brought back to life by Jenka? Maybe the same thing was attempted with Quote... They are so very human-like, what if she used the same kind of magic to attempt to give them life. Though without someone like... the Gunsmith, that knows technology, it might have been for naught.

Unfortunately, the only super advanced robot we meet besides Q and C, might be the Killer Robot in the Core room, that has completely decayed... So, can't tell if Q and C's appearence is normal. It did fool Kazuma, but not Booster. Though Booster, has some kind of tie to Jenka.....

Anyway, Jenka's magic seems to be much more indirect, than Ballos' brute force effects. Healing through potions, controlling Gaudi to do her bidding, creating seals (arf arf arf), and perhaps bringing the inanimate to life (all those skulls running around, and perhaps Curly, Quote, and Omega...).

Misery's powers however mimic Ballos' in some forms. Bolts of lightning, levitation, changing the form of things... So, the question is, is that her young magic? Or is that magic granted by Ballos under the Curse...
So, that confuses me... You would think she would need the crown to access Ballos' power, if that is what gives her those Ballos like powers. And it has been mentioned at the end when she is standing on her own two feet, that maybe her power has gone away with Ballos' destruction [thus a possibility why she didn't come teleport and help]. (Though, perhaps the Seal Chamber is designed to prevent magic from escaping that place. Otherwise, why wouldn't Ballos just teleport out...)

That poses another question, getting the Demon Crown made... Could Misery really waltz into that chamber and come out again? Was the seal chamber designed specifically for Ballos? Or does it affect all magic users? ... Hard to say. If the Core drains/seperates Ballos' power, then maybe you could... Actually, I imagine the seal chamber is like a rough sea of magic. The waters are too wild to properlly teleport someone in there during the final battle. And back when the Core was active, that place probably would have been a whirlpool that suckes up all the magic.

>> Perhaps the reason Balrog was there, was that Misery needed him to get in and get out of the Seal Chamber. Since he wasn't reliant on magic, he could just Huzzah and fly out of there. If this is the case, then it lends evidence to how long Balrog has been around. [If he is a robot according to some theories, then he has been around as long as the crown at least...]

That or if Misery DIDN't have any magic, then she would definitely need Balrog to escape the chamber.



... Getting long again!

Okay, now did Jenka create the island...? Well, she didn't create the remains of the kingdom Ballos destroyed I believe. I also would like to believe that the island was not floating when it was a kingdom, otherwise... it would have been a kingdom of sky dragons and magic. Unless the island provided all of their necessities.

As for the various zones within the island... The only one that seems overly unnatural, is the Sand Zone. I like to believe, that Jenka's magic is drying up like that place. What she accomplished in the past, still stands to this day, but there is no jungle, no oasis anymore, she's become old and frail, and her magic is the same during the events of Cave Story. [Perhaps the Sand Zone was once a magical paradise within the island... it would turn to dust when the enchantments fade...]

I don't believe she created the island, but did she create the Core? That's the big question. If yes, then I ask how did the Core Base get built? The waterway...
You would think the Core would destroy any workers that attempted to build such a huge base at the heart of the island... Unless Misery prevented the Core from attacking...

But, it seemed as if the robots were attacking the Core...? SO CONFUSING

If the Core Base was there originally, as some kind of ancient technology; and the Core pre-existed deep within the land... then no Jenka did NOT create the Core, or the island. However, perhaps she had the ability to control it. Magic seems to naturally flow through it, so it might be connected to her lineage.

OR if she created the Core, and for some reason let the Core Base get built without noticing O_O... Um... well, then with Misery's help, the Core Base was created by Miakid's forces as their inner sanctum perhaps. And a means to control the island's movement. That would also mean, the crown probably did not control the Core then...

OR ... if the Core Base was created PRE-Miakid getting the Crown and Misery awakening, then... somehow the Core was not angered, or attempted to defend itself. I have to assume they drilled their way to that place, otherwise, somehow they made a way to Labyrinth safely... Then after studying the Core, they discovered the Crown's existence, with its ability to control the Core and through it the island.

I don't think there is a case where Jenka constructed the Core Base. Though there is the confusing bit about the ancient lion head grate that leads to the Waterway... I have to assume that the ancient waterway was upgraded recently when the Core base was built; otherwise Jenka wouldwwdwadafssdghkghjopisje

There's NO END!

Another brilliant theory. However, the Island began to fall when the Core was destroyed. Yet destroying Ballos allowed the island to keep floating. Either Ballos's magic was forcing the Island to fall and the Core's destruction didn't mean the Island's demise at all, or he created the Core and Jenka built the Labyrinth and had the Gaudi guard it to protect the Core, knowing what would happen if the Core was destroyed. But there's always the possibility that the Core was controlled by the Demon Crown, and with the death of its wielder and destruction of the physical object, the Island would fall. But if that was the case, the Core wouldn't have survived through the reigns of three Demon Crown owners prior to the Doctor's reign. So many theories, so little time, huh?

 

He walked in, about to ask Misery where the sugar was and was caught in the ensuing crossfire that cursed him along with Misery(pretty plausible theory, y'think?)

 

Unfortunately, the only super advanced robot we meet besides Q and C, might be the Killer Robot in the Core room, that has completely decayed... So, can't tell if Q and C's appearence is normal.

There were a bunch of them in the start of the Labyrinth and one at the start of the Egg Corridor. They're the blue guys. And as you can see Kazuma saying that Quote was well made is not off the mark.

Misery's powers however mimic Ballos' in some forms. Bolts of lightning, levitation, changing the form of things... So, the question is, is that her young magic? Or is that magic granted by Ballos under the Curse...
So, that confuses me... You would think she would need the crown to access Ballos' power, if that is what gives her those Ballos like powers. And it has been mentioned at the end when she is standing on her own two feet, that maybe her power has gone away with Ballos' destruction [thus a possibility why she didn't come teleport and help]. (Though, perhaps the Seal Chamber is designed to prevent magic from escaping that place. Otherwise, why wouldn't Ballos just teleport out...)

I made that point earlier, that Misery likely had the crown created because she had no or little magic of her own.

I don't believe she created the island, but did she create the Core? That's the big question. If yes, then I ask how did the Core Base get built? The waterway...
You would think the Core would destroy any workers that attempted to build such a huge base at the heart of the island... Unless Misery prevented the Core from attacking...

Simple really. Core was docile and the human residents built those structures just like they did elsewhere in the island. Robots attack the Core like they did everything else on the island or maybe simply in an attempt to stop Miakid after he takes the crown. Next time robots appear (Quote and Curly) the Core has already seen robots as a threat and attacks.

 

How is it that Misery wouldn't have any magical powers despite being from (presumably) a long and powerful line of witches? Is she a Squib? (Good job if you get that reference.)

 

How could someone /not/ get that referance

 

Just a quick response!
@TheAntLion -
Thanks for reading all of that xD
As for the "why" for the falling and survival of the island...
This is one of the theories actually discussed in-game :

Spoiler

Kazuma: You know, there's one other way one might return the Mimigas to their natural state.
Kazuma: You could destroy the island's core.
Kazuma: If you did that, however, the island would most likely crumble.
Kazuma: A dangerous choice, no?

Misery: Do you even know what this is?!
Curly: What?
Misery: Hmph. This is what I hate about robots.
Misery: This is the heart of the island!
Misery: If you stop it, the island will fall to the earth!
Misery: Is that your grand plan?
Misery: To take the island down with you in a blaze of glory?!
Misery: Fools!!

Booster: You see, this island floats in the sky by the power of a certain organism, and I've recently discovered its location.
Booster: This labyrinth.
Booster: The organism lives somewhere within this very labyrinth.
Booster: If one could destroy it, the island would cease to function.

Curly: It stopped... The island's stopped falling!
Curly: Maybe all the negative energy was weakened after beat him?
Curly: .....
Curly: Well, I dunno, but it looks like our work here is done.

My guess is that with the Core's destruction, all of Ballos' power returned to him; and without the main Core's strong ability to keep the island flying [assuming that Ballos' power is reduced or fed upon by the Core; and without it, his power continues to build-up more and more; or something along those lines] the island begins to fall. Maybe FALL is the wrong word? I mean it moved down slowly, and shook to bits, causing the place to crumble giant bricks everywhere.
Perhaps, there were two forces at work, kinda tearing at each other?

I always assumed those little cores that surround, and float out of the main Core, were like immature Cores, that would eventually grow to full size (well, maybe only one at a time survives the adult transition?? Imagine if there were that many adult Cores... D Maybe it's more complicated... but, I figured the little cores would be enough to support the island, without Ballos causing havoc. That's why the island doesn't drop out of the sky like a brick, and stays upright?
With his defeat, the wild magic changes somehow, or is eliminated... [Though it sounds like he was pulling an Undead Core Doctor trick, with his "the pain" and skulls... Although, perhaps the dead were dragging him into death at last?]

If the Demon Crown does control the Core, maybe it's more like suggestions to the Core? Like inputting a destination in a GPS. You can't tell the GPS to do something wreckless, like ask it to send you somewhere into the ocean. The Core probably has survival instincts that override the Crown, so it doesn't go crazy with the death of the Crown Bearer. Maybe a better example, would be riding a horse? The horse won't jump off a cliff for you if it sees it coming...

Oh forgot to respond!

But if Balrog is Misery's familiar, then how is it that he did things that would anger her, like helping Quote and Curly in the labyrinth?

Hmm... Well, Balrog is far from the classic familiar... And someone like Misery would probably love something... a bit more charming?
I mean BALROG! He's really unique (soap...?) xD But, I imagine she'd see him more like a little brother that drives her crazy.
She was happy to send Balrog to the labyrinth ...

...Actually, maybe Misery was helping you at that time. I mean, Quote is helpless after being stomped, and Misery could have blasted Quote with some cutscene lightning bolts and maybe do you in... But instead she sends you to the labyrinth along with Balrog...
It's almost like she WANTED you to escape... maybe... subconsciously.
They cannot disobey the Master, but maybe their true feelings show just a little bit. Finding ways around the orders.
Though, she wasn't pleased with the whole Core thing...

If she REALLY wanted to get rid of Quote, she should have just teleported them off the island, high in the sky...

He walked in, about to ask Misery where the sugar was and was caught in the ensuing crossfire that cursed him along with Misery(pretty plausible theory, y'think?)

That needs to be a comic... lol

There were a bunch of them in the start of the Labyrinth and one at the start of the Egg Corridor. They're the blue guys. And as you can see Kazuma saying that Quote was well made is not off the mark.

I disagree about the blue robots being terribly advanced/being the benchmark for the scout robots... They look more like smart helper robots, and get annihilated soon as they run into a Gaudi. I would think the Killer Robot squad, were probably a bit more advanced, and perhaps they even had human-like appearences more like Quote and Curly... but sadly the one we find is decayed to the point of exploding... D:

But, you're right if Kazuma is making a comparison from those types of robots to how Quote looks...

I made that point earlier, that Misery likely had the crown created because she had no or little magic of her own.

Sorry I didn't credit you D: That's definitely a possibility... Though, I still like to think she was tricked into making the Crown... Why would she choose something so bulky as the Crown? You'd think she'd choose something that would be easier to wear...

Though if Misery asked Ballos to make something for some reason; and he hands her that... I suppose she would have no choice but to accept it... Little does she know...

Simple really. Core was docile and the human residents built those structures just like they did elsewhere in the island. Robots attack the Core like they did everything else on the island or maybe simply in an attempt to stop Miakid after he takes the crown. Next time robots appear (Quote and Curly) the Core has already seen robots as a threat and attacks.

I dunno... the Core doesn't seem like it has a higher intelligence. The way it was set off, from a single explosion; makes me believe it unlikely that an entire base of that magnitude could have been built around it without it doing something violent... Unless, they knew a way to coax it...

Though I can't say what I make of the Undead Core Face. .................. O_o
I guess, it's like how Red Flowers make Mimigas change into various looking forms. Creeeepy though.

 

Misery created balrog. at least that's what I think, because balrog is miserys henchman. thusly, being (related?) to misery, balrog became dragged into this mimga hating affair as well

 

I do agree with the whole Balrog magical familiar thing.

I always thought he was that, I never thought he was a human or mimiga who was cursed, due to the fact that in the Labyrinth during the fight with the "black balrog thing" he kept his normal friendly huzzahing toaster shape. I always thought this was his 'magic' being released into a kind of pure/evil dark form.

 

Mr.ColdCallerLoppy, would you mind using some whitespace and punctuation? A post like that is rarely read and dismissed as a random rant, even if the content is good.


Here's my theory, completely based on the game content:

First of all, I don't really see how Ballos and the Core and red flowers are related. According to what Curly says after Ballos is defeated, the Island just floated in the air magically since history. (We don't know how, I don't think even Pixel-ue does.)
But when Ballos came along with his wild magic, and Jenka had to seal him in the Seal Chamber, his wild magic made the the island fall. To balance him, Jenka also made the Core as an energy source for the island to let it keep floating.

In other words, the original Island is 0, Ballos (or his wild magic) is -1, and the Core is +1. The Island used to float neutrally.
Ballos had negative energy and was causing the Island to fall [0+(-1)= -1], so Jenka made the Core as +1 to balance out Ballos and his negative energy [0+(-1)+1=0], thereby neutralizing him and letting the Island float.

As to what Balrog is and why he's mixed up in this demon crown mess, even Pixel-ue doesn't know. He intended it to be a complete mystery, and I don't think we will ever come up with a plausible theory for this inexplicable mystery.

Lastly, What is a "Squib"?

 

A squib is a term used in the harry potter universe to refer to a which or wizard without powers.

 

A squib is a term used in the harry potter universe to refer to a which or wizard without powers.

Oh, thanks.