A suggestion: Mod Development Section

Apr 6, 2010 at 9:26 PM
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Due to recent events here, and noticing that some people on here like to openly discuss mod ideas, I would like to make a suggestion for a new section within the Cave Story forums. My suggestion is to include a Mod Development Section.

Now, the purpose of such a section would in essence be to garner ideas for a good mod before creating said mod. I have seen a few threads in such a manner, but they were all closed due to not having any screen shots.

This would not defeat the purpose of the Mod Showcase, rather, it would give members a chance to share their ideas, but not the story. ;D

The intent of this section would be to help others improve the quality of their mods by gaining ideas from various members. We have quite a few fairly knowledgeable members in this community that could help in this aspect.

In addition, this would also help the newer members that wish to create CS mods.

Some ideas for rules in said section:
-ideas for mods are to be discussed only
-very little to no story would be given, otherwise that would ruin the mod
-no spam




----------
To explain my reason for this, I have witnessed a few things going on here, one of which resulted in ban.

By implementing this section, it would give people a better chance to gain a foothold in the modding community here, and hopefully improve the quality of mods here.

Mind you, the only reason I made this thread is to act as a possible way to help people and avoid future arguments.

Personally, I dunno why you guys don't already have one of these.

And no, this isn't a mod/hacking sections. This is for game-play ideas within a mod, not how to fix errors within a mod or how to implement a hack or hex edit something.


Okay, I'm done rambling. Feel free to discuss this idea/shoot me for being an idiot if this exists already and I, as well as everyone else, haven't found it.
 
Apr 6, 2010 at 10:45 PM
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Seconded

I rather like the idea, too.
Out of all the newb mod threads that have been locked for being development-only in a showcase forum, I don't think I've seen any get revived...
It really does seem like it would improve the modding community.
As Cyo sorta mentioned, and as have been seen before, there seems to be quiet a few number of people who want to run their mouths off about ideas first, before doing anything...
Given a chance to talk, they might actually get something done, instead of being scared off...
It'd be nice to see more active modders around here, if this could be done...
 
Apr 6, 2010 at 10:57 PM
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AAAAAAAH MIND MERGE I HAD THIS EXACT IDEA THIS MORNING!
Actually, I postulated it would be called "Mod Ideas and Development" but since you left that open ended I guess we'll deal. It would obviously contain the ideas topic of doom and some such, and I'm really sorta sick of people locking idea threads (which I, personally, find most interesting).


So yeah, thirded.
 
Apr 6, 2010 at 11:01 PM
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This seems entirely reasonable to me. Currently, the only acceptable place for posts or ideas as such would be the "random ideas of doom" sticky, which in my eyes is an unattractive place for someone to share ideas from. If it goes in there, it feels more like placing your idea on the block, and then maybe someone looks at it, comments, and eventually it gets shoved to the side. If you've got your own thread, that's something you can feel a little bit of ownership in and with ownership comes obligation (At least, for most people...)

Anybody remember MY craptastic first demo? I made it, rushed as it was, quite specifically because I'd read the "Before posting a mod" sticky and I didn't want my head to get bitten off in my first post, since obviously that would have been so discouraging I'd probably have said "screw you guys" and gave up on it. But, once I had a little bit, I could have my thread, and people could discuss, share criticisms, and the like, which really helped me I think.

Another good thing is that if someone who maybe would like to try a bit of modding but is put off by the commitment or doesn't have all the skills at once (there's a lot of different stuff you've got to be at least halfways decent at...), they can see someone else's idea and say "Hey, that sounds like something I'd like to be a part of!", and they can help out, and more things get done.

In conclusion, I think this is a fine idea and I support it.
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 4:59 AM
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If you have only an idea, you should post it here: http://www.cavestory.org/forums/threads/439/

End of discussion.


The reason why "idea" threads, are forbidden, is simple:

1. I fear that it's going to be out of control and everyone posts like crazy.
2. 99% of the time, the idea is not going to be developed into a mod by the person. (Why should someone with skills, post an idea rather than an artwork or a demo?)
3. Everyone who has atleast done some work (screenshot, artwork, demo), is able to have a mod development thread. Just some plain text isn't enough. (Maybe if it was atleast 30 pages long and has a good quality)
4. I don't like to have tons of threads, about mods who will never be done. A mod can have his own thread, but if an idea will have an own thread, chaos will be born. Plus like I said before: I'm asking only for a fucking single image. It really can't be that hard.
5. It's not my fault if you guys ignore the "Random Idea Topic of Doom"
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 5:18 AM
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1. The idea is to get people to share ideas. Not that hard. Why would it get out of hand? In that style of thinking, the same thing could happen in essence to every section in Mirai Gamers.

2. How do you know that would happen? So somethings never get made. Oh wait, we only have 2 or so completed mods and everything else died off in the mod/hack showcase section.

3. This is for people who like to SHARE. And it would give NEW MEMBERS a chance to famailiarize themselves with other members, otherwise they'd feel as if they'd need to be some expect at this in order to join.

4. Not the point. This is purely for ideas. And eventual mod creation. In essence one would propose some ideas, get some feedback, work on the mod, talk with members, and eventually have something good enough to put in the mod showcase. Of which I found rather silly, sense the name appears to mean that one must have something finished in order to post their mod their. This is the idea stage of development. At that point you have nothing beyond an idea. No screenshots, nothing, just an idea.

5. That is because it, well, sucks. You post your idea, and along comes somebody else who has another idea and your's gets pushed away and forgotten. Kills your mood right there, making ya feel ignored by the community because apparently your idea wasn't good enough. Real good way to encourage people.

It's really not that bad of an idea. You are just being far too narrow minded with it all. Be a bit more open to change.
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 8:25 AM
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So... The idea is "MAKING MOD: WHAT DO?"











Sounds like fun.
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 1:18 PM
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Nope, there will not be such a section. A community project is something different, but this all sounds like: "I have an idea and it will be my mod, but you people can do the work". Otherwise tell me: What is so hard about making some concept art or a single screenshot? These rules aren't really that strict.

Imagine what will happen: Everyone who has a mod that is not finished or a demo will have such a "development thread". Since only 2 mods are finished, we end up with everyone posting a development thread instead of posting in the mod section, ending up with a shitload of threads. It still doesn't fix the problem. The mod threads are technicially "development" threads. We don't need to have a thread for every single mod idea, there is a thread for that and there aren't too many post in this thead.

Cyowolf1122 said:
That is because it, well, sucks. You post your idea, and along comes somebody else who has another idea and your's gets pushed away and forgotten. Kills your mood right there, making ya feel ignored by the community because apparently your idea wasn't good enough. Real good way to encourage people.

It's not my fault the community acts like that. It's the fault of the community. If you like to share ideas you can post in the thread that is there for ideas.

Cyowolf1122 said:
It's really not that bad of an idea. You are just being far too narrow minded with it all. Be a bit more open to change.

Offense taken :)
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 2:22 PM
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SP, we already have a "shitload of threads" that are either one and done, never make off the ground, or attempted an idea thread, which was shot and killed before any headway was made.

So perhaps it should be called much like what Lace suggested, "Mod Ideas and Development" or simply "Mod Ideas" (Or something better sounding than that but along the same lines as Mod Ideas.)

This is not intended as a "fix", rather, it is to act as a source of encouragement for our new members. Yes, a lot of threads will be made. What else would happen? Would you rather have it die off? This section is to encourage creativity in people.

The mod threads are technicially "development" threads.
Apologies, let me explain my intent here for it seem to be missed.

It is for ideas not development.

Think about it. What does a game designer do before making a game? he comes up with an idea. Long before you create a game, you must first have an idea of what is going to go on in it.

The thread will be a place to post possible ideas for gameplay in a mod. Not development. The main focus is to be primarily focused on ideas.

That is the premise of my suggestion. It appears that I had chosen my words badly at first. My apologies. I hope this better explains what I meant. :)
 
Apr 7, 2010 at 4:20 PM
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You don't need threads for single ideas, you still have the topic there.
Maybe if it gets 30 creative posts per day, we could talk about such a section.
I don't like to repeat myself all the time.
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 7:35 AM
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S. P. Gardebiter said:
It's not my fault the community acts like that. It's the fault of the community. If you like to share ideas you can post in the thread that is there for ideas.
You're not really getting it though. By putting a topic into a collective thread it is going to be buried, that is entirely unavoidable. This leaves the RITOD thread being only viable for quick Q&A posts or to quickly show off ideas. I understand your reasoning that an ideas section might end up full of n00bs that think it is a good excuse to give someone else the work, or that it will be spammed to hell, but the RITOD thread is not the perfect solution you seem to think it is.

I believe the Ideas forum shouldn't be about others coming up with ideas for you but about submitting your own basic ideas and allowing others to build upon these ideas.

Just build a set of rules about what belongs in the RITOD thread and what belongs in the Ideas forum and enforce them. At least trial it, because if it turns out to be a failure you can just merge everything back into the RITOD thread and the forums can continue like nothing happened.

Oh and it might be good to move the RITOD thread into the Ideas forum (if you decide to make it of course) as a sticky.
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 7:38 AM
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This section isn't about "I have an idea, somebody do it." It's something more like "I'm doing it, somebody give me an idea."
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 8:14 AM
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So?
"I'm doing it, somebody give me an idea."
That's not how the world works...
Get your own ideas.
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 12:14 PM
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No fire, it would be more "I'm doing it and have an idea, can you guys help improve my idea?"
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 12:51 PM
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Fire1052 said:
This section isn't about "I have an idea, somebody do it." It's something more like "I'm doing it, somebody give me an idea."
Um.. no. It really isn't.
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 1:43 PM
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Lace said:
No fire, it would be more "I'm doing it and have an idea, can you guys help improve my idea?"

No, because that would be a mod thread >_>
We were talking about guys who ONLY have ideas, not everything else.
I'm still aware of it beeing either spammed by noobs with no creative aspect, or it will be not active enough because it doesn't seem to be attractive enough.

I still have no idea, why you guys want this section of all a sudden.

Just because I closed two threads, were one of them was a normal mod thread?
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 2:36 PM
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S. P. Gardebiter said:
No, because that would be a mod thread >_>
We were talking about guys who ONLY have ideas, not everything else.
I'm still aware of it beeing either spammed by noobs with no creative aspect, or it will be not active enough because it doesn't seem to be attractive enough.

I still have no idea, why you guys want this section of all a sudden.

Just because I closed two threads, were one of them was a normal mod thread?
No a mod thread is "this is my mod" and "this is the mod's current stage of development". In other words it is a mod showcase thread. -_- Some people suggest ideas, sure, but that has nothing to do with the ideas forum.

The ideas forum is about submitting a thread with an idea so that others can build upon that idea. If you outright ask for ideas or try to post a mod thread then your thread will be either locked, moved, or merged. This stops the section from being abused. Also if the ideas section doesn't work out then you could merge it back in with the "random ideas topic of doom", so there is no reason not to try.

As for guys that only have ideas, that is fine, we want ideas, that is the whole point. If an idea doesn't get used it can still inspire someone else.

I have no idea (pun not intended) what inspired this. I am only here because I support the idea of an "Ideas forum".

And I addressed most of this 6 posts ago:
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/98485/
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 4:14 PM
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Issue 1: the Random Ideas Topic is there for this sort of shenanigans

I'm going to have to say that the Random Ideas topic is dumb, for reasons already mentioned multiple times by others and myself. Even the name makes it sound like a terrible place to post good ideas, for goodness sakes.

Issue 2: Concern over an influx of newbs and noobs.

-and-

Issue 3: Concern over an unwieldy level of spamalicious content

Would it really be that different than it is now? Just pegging on a new section isn't going to increase the traffic at all. There are about 220 threads in the mods showcase forum, less than a half-dozen that could be considered "complete" (counting things like boss rush and hard mode), and like 33 demos of considerable enough length to get mentioned in the list. I really have no clue as to how many of those 220 have NO demo, but I'm certain it's got to be more than half. On top of that, I'm sure there's tons of locked or forgotten ideas threads amongst the 400+ in the "hacking/modding" subsection itself. Cave Story modding isn't exactly a huge thing, you know. I doubt that having a new subsection would change these statistics much, if at all. In my opinion, having the ideas section would lead to less clutter in the actual mod showcase forum and modding/hacking forums, since these conceptual-stage threads would have a place to go and not get stuck in amongst the ones with demos and content.

Issue 4: General lack of understanding by certain persons as to the object of the section

The point is for the section to be a sort of catch-all for early stages of mod development I think. Currently this stuff goes into one of the two modding sections anyway. If there were some modifications and clarification as to the guidelines as to what belongs in each section then as I see it a new section can only improve the organization of the hacking & modding side of the forums. If you're worried about the chaos, set some rules or guidelines. Maybe you could provide some info to make people aware that modding is serious business and you probably shouldn't bother unless you are REALLY committed? I'm not entirely sure what could be a good compromise between flexiblity and control but really, I'm certain something agreeable could be reached.

Issue 5: The only requirement for a mod thread is a screenshot


I understand how you're emphasizing this requirement, it's really not much. Since it's SO minimal, in fact, it really acts only as a filter for those who aren't aware of that specific qualification. I mean, for instance, I could take 10 minutes and hodge together a screenshot for "Crave Story: Chako's Quest" and put it up and I'd be okay, when all I've got is the name? How is that showing any more initiative than somebody with a well-formulated idea that shows planning, enthusiasm and an understanding of the commitment involved? Even with this rule we still get a) terrible mods and b) uncomplete or even demo-less mods all the time.
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 4:50 PM
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andwhyisit said:
No a mod thread is "this is my mod" and "this is the mod's current stage of development". In other words it is a mod showcase thread. -_- Some people suggest ideas, sure, but that has nothing to do with the ideas forum.

Did you read Lace's post?
I guess you didn't -_-

Lace said:
No fire, it would be more "I'm doing it and have an idea, can you guys help improve my idea?"

It sounds like: "I'm doing a mod (it) and have an idea for it", that would be a mod thread not an idea thread. An Idea thread is only about ideas, not about mods.

andwhyisit said:
The ideas forum is about submitting a thread with an idea so that others can build upon that idea.

How often do you people want to repeat it? Seriously? I can sing it while sleeping already.

andwhyisit said:
And I addressed most of this 6 posts ago:
http://www.cavestory.org/forums/posts/98485/

Then stop repeating yourself. Because it makes me think you guys think, I'm fucking dumb.
 
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