Do you think King and Toroko should have died?

I've played the mod by Hayden (I think it was him) and saved King and Toroko, but I was wondering what everyone else thinks about their deaths. I mean, it does give you a good reason on killing the Doctor and adds a lot of emotional depth into the story, but it's tragic and heartbreaking to see them die, especially since King was my favorite character. (Well, one of them, anyway.) I think that the mod should've been in the base game, and before you tell me, I know there was a huge gap between the two, so Pixel saying it's canon works too.
What are your thoughts?

 

anyone who makes a mod of cave story in the hopes that it may be "made canon" is a fool
i know that hayden didn't do that, and in fact relished in the fact that it was non-canon, but i still wanna make that point

 

anyone who makes a mod of cave story in the hopes that it may be "made canon" is a fool
i know that hayden didn't do that, and in fact relished in the fact that it was non-canon, but i still wanna make that point

Well, yeah, but my main point was if it should be an option in the game. As in, should Pixel have either released it like that or acknowledged it as canon.
From what I hear Pixel is kind of "over" Cave Story and wants to move on, so I am I correct to assume he doesn't care much about any of this anymore? I could be wrong.

 

Well, yeah, but my main point was if it should be an option in the game. As in, should Pixel have either released it like that or acknowledged it as canon.

Whatever you leave to your imagination, it's canon according to Pixel (based on the many repetitive questions answered by him).

 

Whatever you leave to your imagination, it's canon according to Pixel (based on the many repetitive questions answered by him).

I didn't know Pixel said that. Where can I find the interview?

 

Whatever you leave to your imagination, it's canon according to Pixel (based on the many repetitive questions answered by him).

He just says "I leave it to your imagination" or something like that, nothing about it being canon or not canon.

I didn't know Pixel said that. Where can I find the interview?

http://blogs.vandal.net/12458/vm/13302725112007
http://www.cavestory.org/game-info/bbs-2012-11.php
http://www.cavestory.org/game-info/bbs-2012-12.php
http://www.cavestory.org/game-info/bbs-2013-07.php

Search for the word "imagination".

 

I think it sucks that they are dead, but I don't quite understand what you mean by "should have died".

Should they have survived their mortal wounds? no.

Should Qoute have spared Toroko? I don't think he could have just subdued her.

Should King have listened to Booster and stay at Arthur's house? yes.

 

I think it sucks that they are dead, but I don't quite understand what you mean by "should have died".

Should they have survived their mortal wounds? no.

Should Qoute have spared Toroko? I don't think he could have just subdued her.

Should King have listened to Booster and stay at Arthur's house? yes.

I meant as in should the game have come out with a plot that let them die.

 

No, I don't think Toroko and King should have died... Or at least I fought to try to save them. Back when I first played this game, I replayed looking for a way to change what happens as soon as King died. No dice...
I only looked up a guide after losing Curly too. lol I was like, it's not happening again!

Actually I prefer dynamic cutscenes over fixed events. How would you have changed the story if you could interact during cutscenes...?

Spoiler

I remember in the game Anodyne, there was a particular scene that was really powerful, whether it was an illusion of control or not, I'm still not sure.
A central beloved character was about to die; be blasted away, and I reflexively moved the MC between the two, and it appeared to happen in real time! It really felt like you just caused something to change...
And that's what I'd like to see more in games. Sure, I love cutscenes, but if you play a game where you have a lot of control over the gameplay, except in cutscenes... that should be fixed!

anyone who makes a mod of cave story in the hopes that it may be "made canon" is a fool

In the future canon won't be important... Once limited AI is placed within a game... It'll be their reality, no matter how it looks.
"Sorry... You're not CAnon. Someone altered your game :/"
"............................................. game?"
ErRORERRORERRORErRORERROR

 

I meant as in should the game have come out with a plot that let them die.

to be honest, the deaths don't do anything bad for the plot, in fact it gives us more motivation to stop the Ductor so I guess its absolutely ok in that perspective

 

Most games either let everyone live happily ever after, or only kill minions and red shirts. With Cave Story having important protagonist individuals die, this gives it the spice that most other game plots lack, bringing up a stronger feeling in the player.

As for whether King and Toroko had to die? You just gotta accept that you can't save everyone, mistakes will happen, and hell will break loose.

 

I really enjoyed how undramatized and unexpected the characters in Cave Story died. (Not that they died) It really added a really mature and realistic circumstance to the game. Combined with having multiple endings which I knew about made opposing the doctor really a threat and it wasn't obvious to me to which degree even the normal and good ending would actually be a happy ending. Especially Curly's death on my first playthrough really was somehow touching, particularly seeing her being dead after rescuing me in the credit sequences.

Se yes, for the sake of Cave Story's mood - they should have died. :'P

 

Death in video games has to be executed carefully. The amount of times you can effectively kill off your important characters varies from game to game, but having too little deaths can be as bad for a game as having too many. Consequence for actions or justification for actions can be created through character deaths. This isn't always how consequence and justification are created, but it is a very good way to do it. If these feelings are absent from the player, the game is not engaging. If these feelings are too heavily forced on the player, they can seem artificial.
With relevance to these points, the deaths in CS are well done. They do have a purpose - for King, to save Toroko, and for Toroko, as a guinea pig for the red flowers. The deaths aren't used as a consequence for the player's actions in any sense, but they do create a good justification for hating and fighting the Doctor.

 

In an alternate universe where Toroko and King don't die in front of Quote, maybe Quote would have joined the Doctor.

Zero encounter: See the pendant but don't pick it up.
First encounter: Balrog busts into the Shack looking for Sue, and asks you if you are going to fight. You say no. (Toroko is inside Arthur's House)
Second encounter: Balrog arrives, saving you from the dreaded MALCO. Do you know where Sue is? (YES/NO)
Third encounter: Misery shows up in Grasstown, recognizes you, and finds out you lost your memories. If you told Balrog where Sue is, he shows up with the news and Misery leaves.
Curly 1 encounter: Fight Curly, win, and answer you are a killer robot.
Fourth encounter: Misery shows up in Sand Zone, asks you for your help in retrieving the Storehouse Key. She tells you, you are a Killer Robot, once enslaved by humans now free to make your own choices.
Jenka encounter: Collect all puppies and answer a series of (YES/NO) questions without revealing that Misery sent you. If you convince her, you get the Storehouse Key.
Sixth encounter: Arrive at the Storehouse and unlock it, allowing Misery and Balrog to arrive. Misery thanks you and leaves to fetch the Doctor. You learn a bit more about their background from Balrog.
Doctor encounter: Misery and Doctor arrive. The Doctor is impressed, and asks for a demonstration. Balrog vs Quote? Defeat Balrog and the Doctor has no need of him. Misery sends him to the labyrinth.

 

In an alternate universe where Toroko and King don't die in front of Quote, maybe Quote would have joined the Doctor.

Zero encounter: See the pendant but don't pick it up.
First encounter: Balrog busts into the Shack looking for Sue, and asks you if you are going to fight. You say no. (Toroko is inside Arthur's House)
Second encounter: Balrog arrives, saving you from the dreaded MALCO. Do you know where Sue is? (YES/NO)
Third encounter: Misery shows up in Grasstown, recognizes you, and finds out you lost your memories. If you told Balrog where Sue is, he shows up with the news and Misery leaves.
Curly 1 encounter: Fight Curly, win, and answer you are a killer robot.
Fourth encounter: Misery shows up in Sand Zone, asks you for your help in retrieving the Storehouse Key. She tells you, you are a Killer Robot, once enslaved by humans now free to make your own choices.
Jenka encounter: Collect all puppies and answer a series of (YES/NO) questions without revealing that Misery sent you. If you convince her, you get the Storehouse Key.
Sixth encounter: Arrive at the Storehouse and unlock it, allowing Misery and Balrog to arrive. Misery thanks you and leaves to fetch the Doctor. You learn a bit more about their background from Balrog.
Doctor encounter: Misery and Doctor arrive. The Doctor is impressed, and asks for a demonstration. Balrog vs Quote? Defeat Balrog and the Doctor has no need of him. Misery sends him to the labyrinth.

That would be interesting.

 

That would be interesting.

Yep, siding with the doctor is a nice scenario. But who would oppose this overpowered alliance of the Doctor, Misery, The Core and Quote? Even the Rabbit Mimiga would be helping them.

On the other side we just have Curly and that's about it regarding capable fighters. :O