Considering an editor...

Sep 11, 2006 at 8:57 PM
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*goes to the library and checks out a book on assembly*
 
Sep 11, 2006 at 9:09 PM
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If you're serious about learning assembly, I'm going to my mother's tomorrow and will upload my primer from there. Other than that, you can look into 80x86 assembly via google. Finding a tutorial takes very little time.

Regardless, it's going to be a bit of a "learn as you go" editor, I'm sure. Newbie hackers will have access to the "click-on-things" aspect, which allows for a minimum of editing. Anyone with half an ounce of talent in hacking will probably find themselves drawn to the various assembly dumps just sitting in some windows here and there and eventually try a few basic things out. And things will just... go on from there. :p

After all, everyone has to learn someday. Otherwise they just become grouchy sub-par hackers, complain that assembly is a waste of time, get angry when someone pumps out an assembly hack or two because they can't do it, and end up getting a life and giving up hacking. :p
 
Sep 12, 2006 at 12:08 PM
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RuneLancer said:
Regardless, it's going to be a bit of a "learn as you go" editor, I'm sure. Newbie hackers will have access to the "click-on-things" aspect, which allows for a minimum of editing. Anyone with half an ounce of talent in hacking will probably find themselves drawn to the various assembly dumps just sitting in some windows here and there and eventually try a few basic things out. And things will just... go on from there. :p

If ure right I can say in a few months:

ph33r |\/|3 1337 H4xX0r 5k!11Zz!
 
Sep 12, 2006 at 12:46 PM
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RuneLancer said:
Regardless, it's going to be a bit of a "learn as you go" editor, I'm sure. Newbie hackers will have access to the "click-on-things" aspect, which allows for a minimum of editing. Anyone with half an ounce of talent in hacking will probably find themselves drawn to the various assembly dumps just sitting in some windows here and there and eventually try a few basic things out. And things will just... go on from there. :p
Actually thats how I like to learn, It's not a bad way to learn either.

as for the familiar name, I use this name on several sites including:
YTMND, a metroid board, a chainmail board, a ytmnd board, and possibly a romhacking board. I used to go to several romhacking boards under a different name but they all died
 
Sep 12, 2006 at 1:06 PM
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SpaceDolphin said:
Actually thats how I like to learn, It's not a bad way to learn either.

as for the familiar name, I use this name on several sites including:
YTMND, a metroid board, a chainmail board, a ytmnd board, and possibly a romhacking board. I used to go to several romhacking boards under a different name but they all died

hey why not making your own board? :p there are so much sites where u can have a free board, and you only need to give them ur mail adress... :D
I for expample have already 2 forums :p
 
Sep 12, 2006 at 7:16 PM
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Leet-speak isn't something used by serious people. As such, you're not likely to learn it while trying to learn assembly. You might find yourself learning a host of interesting and creative swear-words, however. :p

Why bother creating message boards? Unless they serve a purpose that isn't covered by other boards... I myself run one for Endless Saga, but it's mostly for the sake of keeping in touch with betatesters and other members of the dev team, not as some general-chatter board. It's a fun exeperience regardless, I suppose. >"<

SpaceDolphin, does... er, what was it called... TekHacks ring a bell? I'm almost certain I saw your name there before it died (the lack of serious and/or skilled hackers drew it to a grinding halt in its last mments... I just watched from afar in-between debates on how the map compression in FF6 worked on Mnrogar's. :p )
 
Sep 12, 2006 at 7:52 PM
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So there are parts of it, such as boundaries, damage, Exp and so on, which you can change simply by typing in different figures. But to change the behaviour of it, i.e like turning the blade into a fully functional boomerang (I just thought of that I was posting...now I might use it), you'd have to have assembly knowledge. Cool.

Easy. :p
No, I know I don't really have much experience, and would probably try changing the size of a weapon, and end up making the weapon able to damage me.
 
Sep 12, 2006 at 8:12 PM
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That's entirely right. There's hardly anything worth editing if you don't know assembly, but let's face it, code is code, not data. You can't write an assembly-editor where you can just click on things, it doesn't work that way.

My goal with Discrete is to keep code as code and data as data. I'm under the impression someone would want to edit, say, the shooting star to make it into an UZI. Then anything editably by changing values in the code would end up invalid since the code would be different. Hence, the editor won't work that way. It's not meant to be used to make watered-down cookie-cutter hacks - we have Sue's workshop for the easy stuff after all. :p

Admittedly the map editor part of the editor will pretty much do the same thing as Sue's, so the above is more or less moot.

In short, I'm trying to make something that is geared towards serious hacks, but can also cover the simpler stuff. If you know assembly, use that knowledge. If you don't, then don't use it. It's that simple. Having access to the code will allow neophytes to make minor tweaks of their own so everyone wins.But the true power of the editor definately lies in making serious hacks.
 
Sep 12, 2006 at 9:26 PM
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Sontreal said:
like turning the blade into a fully functional boomerang (I just thought of that I was posting...now I might use it),
I can just see it. :D
The blade flys forward, whips backward goes through Quote doing 15 damage, reverses, until you're out of hp. :p :p
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 12:06 AM
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That wouldn't quite work. The game doesn't detect hits made from a weapon object to the player. You can sample this by using the explosive charges in my hack and walking over them - nothing happens. Nor does getting caught up in an explosion by a missile do any damage.

The weapon would have to be coded specifically in such a way that it would detect Quote's position and trigger the damage routine when close enough.
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 12:56 AM
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When will you release the editor?
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 5:56 AM
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RuneLancer said:
That wouldn't quite work.
Ahh well...
Still, it'd be a funny thing to have happen. :p
 
Sep 13, 2006 at 3:15 PM
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@Daniel:
It could, but it would mean putting a lot of work into reworking the weapon engine. Alternatively, the weapon in question could spawn an entity instead of a bullet as part of its code. Those can hit the player, though it wouldn't harm enemies.

@jeff:
When it'll be done.

Considering that...
- I work on 3 projects at once.
- This one isn't my top priority.
- I like to spend certain evenings drinking with friends and/or playing pool.
- I like to spend certain evenings with my girlfriend.
- I like to spend certain evenings just plain relaxing instead of coding 24/7.
- This is a sizeable project.

...I'd say it could take a few months, quite easily.I expect to complete my hack before the editor.
 
Sep 14, 2006 at 3:56 AM
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RuneLancer said:
@Daniel:
Alternatively, the weapon in question could spawn an entity instead of a bullet as part of its code. Those can hit the player, though it wouldn't harm enemies.

Could a weapon spawn both at once?
 
Sep 14, 2006 at 3:30 PM
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Why not? This is code after all - you don't have to let the engine's limitations drag you down. :p The problem is wether it's reasonable or not given what the rest of the game engine allows.

In this case, the biggest problem would be timing. Both the weapon and entity would have to overlap and animate with pixel perfect precision, unless you make one of them invisible.

Why you'd want to make a weapon that kills the player is beyond me though. :p
 
Sep 14, 2006 at 9:53 PM
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Yeah. I was actually thinking about that in the context of the explosive charges you made for your hack, where it might make sense for the player to have to avoid blowing himself up, rather like with plastic explosives in Metal Gear Solid.
 
Sep 16, 2006 at 2:08 PM
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RuneLancer said:
No offense Caveoholic, but if you can't be bothered to learn assembly, then don't touch the assembly-related stuff and use the rest of the editor. You're not being forced to use it, or the editor, by anyone, so I have no idea what you're complaining about this time. :p.

uh it was kinda just a joke

you take things wayy too seriously.
 
Sep 18, 2006 at 5:37 PM
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caveoholic! said:
uh it was kinda just a joke

you take things wayy too seriously.
Given your past behavior towards me, it's quite hard to tell. Sarcasm and cynical humor do not carry well across the internet, given the lack of intonation and facial expressions.
 
Sep 18, 2006 at 8:37 PM
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are you kidding do you really think I would be serious about somones grandmother wanting to make a cave story hack you really don't need facial expressions to figure that out
 
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