<CAT

Heheh...

I was just trying to clear things up and defend my comment...
Like when Orange took the sarcasm as directed towards him, when I directed it towards the file...
Sure, it takes two to tango, but who's the first to ask for the dance?
And, yeah, I need to respond to everything to get my point across.
That's why there are arguments in the first place; someone {or more} isn't fully understanding something.
And so I respond and try to help them understand it. {Like right now}
I don't think I'm treating this forum as a shoutbox, else I'd only have 1 to 2 sentence posts....

Also, Jacob, didn't get a chance to fix this before I had to go, earlier quote statement:

But, I was never wrong.

I'm not saying you're wrong.

My fault for the confusion.
When I said I was never wrong, I meant that I was never wrong, nor right. Because it was just a comment...

 

Hmm..

Comments can be offensive. For instance, and this is an example taken to a higher tier, but for example you wouldn't simply say that the Christian Bible should be changed because it simply guesses at how mankind was created, right after somebody recommends Christianity to someone looking for a religion to follow.

Yeah, I see your point {Oh, that brings up a hilarious quote I've got...}, but, like you said, that's a higher tier...
The TSC file really needs an update, no joke about it...
Infact, we'll probably need a special version for when {and if, :eek:} Lace get's his special TSC hacks done....

Well then you should have said that.
And edit your post, you didn't say that, I did.

Oh, well, now you're confusing me O.o;

 

Well it is being updated, and you knew that already. Also, for the record, at what point ever have you used <CAT, and therefore had to know what it meant?
Never.

What? Counting Boots' TSC update?
That's just for the commands, and it's still lacking in places... {Plus, DB seems to be very busy with other stuff, at the moment..}
{The TSC file doesn't need an update just for <CAT, there's a ton of other things that could use fixing...}
And I could've needed <CAT for my mod, but fortunately, I knew about <TUR.
Still, don't you think it's a bit silly to say it's just like <SAT, when it doesn't even affect text? {And, <SAT makes all of the text speed up until <END}
This isn't about me needing the update, this is about new users who'll have no idea that the file's wrong in some places, which is why I commented on it in the first place....

 

What, pray tell, would be needed other than TSC commands in a TSC help file?
The original has all accurate information for values and such, at least to my knowledge.

What about the Credits' commands?
You wouldn't really call them TSC, but they really need an update..

You know what'll happen when it doesn't work for them? They'll find out that it was an intelligent guess. Hell, if they couldn't see that it was in the first place, then maybe they shouldn't be taking on such a complicated task as this.
New members can think for themselves, Lowell. They can figure it out.

Hahahahah!!!
Dood, I thought you, of all people, would know better!!
How many threads have been created by new-users that ask obvious questions about things that could've been easily answered if they used the Search Button?
Hell, you just posted in one such thread!!
Some of the new-users don't even know how to make dialogue!!
Yeah, there are exceptions, but a lot of new-users will just come back to the forum and complain "Why doesn't <CAT work?!" or "I don't get this part of the TSC file!!!"
And we can fix that by fixing the TSC file.

 

Maybe..

I think people who ask previously-answered questions should be told, 'Figure it out,' their threads closed, and them banned. (not permanently)
People need to learn to learn. If you don't teach them, they'll teach themselves.
You're a perfect example, Lowell. You said you'd never used the TSC guide for help, and instead looked to the original script of Cave Story. If you can do that, I'm sure new members can look around.

This could apply to everybody.

Actually, I'm not that good of an example.
I'm a fast learner, and I've had previous experience from hacking and modding other games...
Some of these guys don't even know how Hexadecimal works... {I learn that from hacking Super Mario World ^.^}

I don't think we can just close their threads and ban them, because, first of all andwhyisit would never allow that :eek:, and second, all we need to do is steer them on the right track.
Looking back, I realize how stupid I was about backgrounds with Cave Editor, but now I fully understand how to add them to my maps.
People just need to be steered to the right direction, and once they get their heads wrapped around it, they'll have no trouble at all....
The first step's always the hardest.

 

*Shrugs*

Still, I just don't understand how anyone without Down Syndrome would think that they're the first person to ever ask how to do something. What the fuck. We need to teach these fuckers right off the bat that if you're not motivated to use search, your question isn't important.
And I meant a temp. ban. Maybe a day or two.
This really needs to become a thing. It really does. How the fuck are they supposed to learn if we give them the reward without any effort?

And if we're too harsh, we'll scare away potentially good people that are just now getting into modding...
Also, if you remember that Cave Story Blog I got so worked up about, a lot of people think nothing of previous posts or comments....

Besides, I tried something similar to your approach, and didn't work...
Infact, I got talked down for it =/ {Page 24}

 

well, since this is now on-topic, thanks in no small part to lowell:

i agree with jacob.
the whole reason i posted that file and didn't give the new person step-by-step instructions is because most of the answers to their questions are in that file. if they had a question about something in that file (rare, the person not responding after i posted that file just backs up my argument) i am of course willing to help the person.
i don't see why you made a fuss about a hypothetical situation.
i believe that the amount of effort spent trying to make a mod will be the exact same amount of effort used when the actual mod is made. i've seen some very bad mods made this way, surely you have seen some too.

 

Heh..

well, since this is now on-topic, thanks in no small part to lowell:

i agree with jacob.
the whole reason i posted that file and didn't give the new person step-by-step instructions is because most of the answers to their questions are in that file. if they had a question about something in that file (rare, the person not responding after i posted that file just backs up my argument) i am of course willing to help the person.
i don't see why you made a fuss about a hypothetical situation.
i believe that the amount of effort spent trying to make a mod will be the exact same amount of effort used when the actual mod is made. i've seen some very bad mods made this way, surely you have seen some too.

Yeah, infact, Ralren is remaking his mod, since he started it with very little knowledge of TSC commands..
Which is why I'm making a fuss about a 'hypothetical situation'. Because it has happened, is happening, and will happen again and again unless we fix it.
Also, the dood probably didn't post back because either I already warned him the TSC file doesn't help in some places, or he got scared because of the huge argument going on. :eek:
Or maybe because of something else we don't know about...

Scare away? Bitch, if you get scared because one of the enforced rules is "Don't ask previously asked questions, or you will be temporarily banned," Then maybe you should look into a psychologist, because you obviously have some sort of disorder.

Not that many of you guys even listen to the rules, anyway. Hypocrite >.>
Anyways, maybe I'm just trying to be kind to the new users.
You should try it

And you said yourself that they're wrong. Hypocrisy? Maybe.

No, I was just showing you how common it is for people to be morons and ignore previously posted things....

You go about things completely wrong. You literally did throw a hissy fit. Besides, where on there did you suggest the idea similar to mine? You just flamed. Flamer.

It's similar because I was an ass to the new-user.
Just like your proposed idea.

 

Which is why I'm making a fuss about a 'hypothetical situation'. Because it has happened, is happening, and will happen again and again unless we fix it.

dood, did you even read my post

 

Heheh...

dood, did you even read my post

I tried, but some of it's kinda hard to follow...
Did I get it wrong, or something?

Anyways, I've gotta go real soon, and this whole thing is silly, as everyone's already pointed out.

This does not need to continue.
All I said was that the TSC file needed updating.
This argument, like you both said already, is pointless.
So why not end it?
End Of Discussion.

 

End Of Discussion.

i like how you posted this as soon as you got your last word in
foolproof strategy to get your way

 

Holy shit people do not need to be banned for asking questions. Of all the incendiary crap that goes on, the one thing that actually shows a desire to learn and for the love of God actually better one's self should not be punished. The hacking/modding section is a complete mess anyway, that's why I made the quick answers thread, so that the easy questions can just be asked without making a big kerfuffle over them every-single-darn-time. If it becomes a genuine problem for a certain user, then okay, it's a genuine problem, but really almost all users only need to be told once and then it's not an issue anymore. Banning people off the bat just for asking questions is elitism, nothing less. Elitism, in a fucking unofficial CS modding community. There isn't even an actual starter's modding FAQ/tutorial anywhere as far as I know, so for as long as I can remember it's just been finding the various guides for separate things and trying to piece together how to do it properly. For some it's easy but for others, especially younger folks with no prior programming/hacking experience, the concept needs to click before they can get the hang of doing it on their own. If you don't feel like answering somebody's question, then ignore it and let someone else do it. It doesn't HAVE to be such a big deal.

Also:

And, yeah, I need to respond to everything to get my point across.

No, dude, you really, really don't. If you've been clear about what you're saying and have already repeated yourself at least once then it's not your problem if other people don't get it.

 

i like how you posted this as soon as you got your last word in
foolproof strategy to get your way

Hey, um, you wanted to end this, correct? Why keep it going like that?

It doesn't matter whether you're new or not, if you do something stupid like that, you need to get a ban, or an infraction at least.
You think I haven't gotten a warning yet? Do you? Because I have.

We have, what, typically only two active Admins? And one more then the other.
They can't warn every new user that pops up...
Infact, remember andwhy demoted himself because of all of the pressure?
We can just give the new-users a smack on the nose and tell them better, ourselves...

Here's an assignment before you go, Lowell: find me an incident where someone reported using <CAT and it not working. It has to be the second time someone has asked that question; the first time is always the exception. It needs to be pointed out in thread format that something works a certain way, or doesn't, before anyone who can't read @ symbols will know about it.

Once again, even if the title says it, it's not just about <CAT.
What about the credits, or the other commands? {The other @'s}

Holy shit people do not need to be banned for asking questions. Of all the incendiary crap that goes on, the one thing that actually shows a desire to learn and for the love of God actually better one's self should not be punished. The hacking/modding section is a complete mess anyway, that's why I made the quick answers thread, so that the easy questions can just be asked without making a big kerfuffle over them every-single-darn-time. If it becomes a genuine problem for a certain user, then okay, it's a genuine problem, but really almost all users only need to be told once and then it's not an issue anymore. Banning people off the bat just for asking questions is elitism, nothing less. Elitism, in a fucking unofficial CS modding community. There isn't even an actual starter's modding FAQ/tutorial anywhere as far as I know, so for as long as I can remember it's just been finding the various guides for separate things and trying to piece together how to do it properly. For some it's easy but for others, especially younger folks with no prior programming/hacking experience, the concept needs to click before they can get the hang of doing it on their own. If you don't feel like answering somebody's question, then ignore it and let someone else do it. It doesn't HAVE to be such a big deal.

Exactly...

Anyways, you two {Not you, DoubleThink XD} said earlier that you wanted to end this, why keep it going?
Contradicting, no?
I even asked for this to be closed or deleted...
Already been stated by, well, everyone, that this is going no where...
So what's wrong with ending it.
{Yeah, you can pretend I'm trying to look like the good person all you want, but maybe, just maybe, I just want this to be over with, eh?}

 

Hey, um, you wanted to end this, correct? Why keep it going like that?

that was before you got your own thread created
additionally, you wanted to keep this going, correct? why are you ending it all of a sudden like that?

 

that was before you got your own thread created
additionally, you wanted to keep this going, correct? why are you ending it all of a sudden like that?

Oh, my thread?
Um, did you see the names andwhyisit gave to it before changing it to <CAT?
If this was my thread, it would have been closed/deleted a long time ago.
Don't try to put the blame on me, this is our thread.
{Infact, if you hadn't taken that sarcasm as directed towards you and gotten so defensive, this probably would have never happened}

And when did I ever say I wanted to keep this going?
I've always tried to answer everything whenever I posted, just so it'd end.
I've gotten this moved, asked for it's closing/deleting several times, and tried to end it twice now.
Where does it say that I wanted this to continue?
Infact, I never wanted it in the first place, I was simply commenting on something...
Now I've just been trying to defend that simple comment.

If nothing, you're now the one causing this to continue, at this point...

 

NO U

Yes, that is how infantile and petty you people sound right now.

 

For the record, Lowell's original comment that started this whole debate was right on. The current help files for new modders leave A LOT to be desired. Yes, there are many people who have successfully created good quality mods despite the sketchiness of the help files, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they did so without a lot of frustration and confusion, it just means that they didn't let their frustration and confusion show on the forums. For example, if you've played TWoR you might think to yourself "Well, wedge of cheese created a pretty good mod with few or no bugs so it must not be that hard, right?". Not necessarily. TWoR would probably be quite a bit better quality if the help files had been better, because I would not have had to spend so much time figuring out the basics of modding and fixing stupid problems that I would not have had in the first place had the help files been better, and I would have been able to spend more time developing a better storyline, better level design, etc. I would be willing to bet that the same can be said for many other good mods. Cheezer, Xaser, Boots, all you modders, am I right?

Basically, the current help files are sufficient to get people started with modding, but they are just barely sufficient, and are therefore significantly reducing both the quantity and the quality of the mods that we are seeing.

 

I agree. I'm finding it difficult to start modding for that reason.