Who do you want to win the U.S. presidency 2016? (Debate)

Who do you want to win? (select who you think would do a good job if you have more than one option)

  • Trump

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • Clinton

    Votes: 5 18.5%
  • Sanders

    Votes: 17 63.0%
  • Cruz

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • Carson

    Votes: 5 18.5%
  • Other (please state below)

    Votes: 6 22.2%

  • Total voters
    27
Dec 27, 2015 at 12:35 AM
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Inside the clusterfuck that is American politics are some candidates hoping to become president. Who do you think would be qualified and why? Debate is welcome but PLEASE be mature and be logical.
 
Dec 27, 2015 at 10:44 PM
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Sanders. People view him as a "dirty Socialist" but Socialism when combined with democracy works exceedingly well. I don't have the time right now to put up an organized argument, but let's just say that Canada is basically a Socialist Democracy and it works very well for them.

Besides, Sanders is one of the few old coots who actually wants to see change in society's views of people, and isn't just using those views to gain votes (*cough cough* HILLARY *cough*).

And who the hell voted for Trump? I mean seriously, you have to be joking. I'm not trying to be abrasive here, but you must be brain dead if you think he's actually going to get Mexico to build a wall around America. Also, the whole "Ban All Muslims" thing he has going is starting to look a lot like the Red Scare, and if you know anything about that, you'd know that it was not pretty. People were sentenced to death for supposedly being "communist" and there was little to no way you could prove otherwise. It was like the Salem Witch Trials.

Also, he cited a certain anti-illegal immigration program as a "good example" of immigration policy. That program wound up getting thousands of Hispanic American citizens deported (even natural born ones) and didn't help to reduce illegal immigration at all and is one of the biggest sore thumbs in American history that your Social Studies textbook won't tell you about.
 
Dec 27, 2015 at 11:04 PM
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Whoever voted for Trump is the smartest person on this forum.
 
Dec 27, 2015 at 11:21 PM
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Dec 27, 2015 at 11:37 PM
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Like most of y'all have chosen so far, I also like Sanders. To me he seems like the most genuine of the candidates, and I agree with most of the policies he wants to put in place. But I'm basically just repeating what everybody else has said so far. What I'm really interested in is knowing is, given the likely chance that Sanders does not make the Democratic nomination, who looks like the best candidate besides Sanders? If anybody has a second preferred candidate let me know why you think that they're good because I'm not as familiar with the other candidates as I am with Sanders. Despite all of the bad things I've heard so far, Clinton would be my second pick. From what I understand she would basically be the closest thing to another 4 years of Obama. I typically don't agree with the Republican party on their reactionary views (usually they are against LGBT rights and don't consider the environment a high priority), and most candidates in that party seem to be following that mold.
 
Dec 28, 2015 at 10:25 PM
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I think Sanders would be the most qualified candidate, but I would vote for him as the lesser of two evils. Nordic socialism wouldn't work in the U.S. It's too big for most social programs, and the media would reject anything like that the instant it showed up. The American culture would basically regard anything that has to do with "socialism" as government control and it wouldn't go down well. Sanders seems honest though, and looks pretty competent. He seems like the person that would learn from his mistakes, which is VERY important.

As for Trump, I'm going to keep it short while still keeping my opinion intact. I don't think that someone who said he would rather have Jews and not Blacks counting his money should be in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth.
 
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Dec 28, 2015 at 10:31 PM
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trump 20X5
 
Dec 28, 2015 at 10:31 PM
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I voted for Deez Nuts
the most capable candidate
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 2:32 AM
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Like most of y'all have chosen so far, I also like Sanders. To me he seems like the most genuine of the candidates, and I agree with most of the policies he wants to put in place.

What policies if I might ask, I'm not very keen on this stuff but since I'm 18 I really need to educate myself.

From what I understand she would basically be the closest thing to another 4 years of Obama. I typically don't agree with the Republican party on their reactionary views (usually they are against LGBT rights and don't consider the environment a high priority), and most candidates in that party seem to be following that mold.

Ok, first:

1: Why is the environment and LGBT a concern right NOW? We have freaking (correct me if the following number is incorrect) 10,000 terrorists/refugees dumped into the US like 2 months ago, and we basically have a war on our hands against Isis and the terrorists that want to shoot our guts out because of what we believe. Isis is no laughing matter, they've killed plenty and aren't afraid to kill more of us to spread their lies and tyranny trying to convert everyone to follow Allah and shoot those who don't.

Oh yeah and more gun control is being pushed by the democrats to get the weapons out of our hands. (remember that basketball pro's family that did an add on christmas?)
Why do they want to get guns out of our hands? Because they can't control us if we have weapons. Once a japanese military commander/general (I forget) was asked if they would ever to think to invade the US, his Responce was.... No, there is a gun hiding behind every tree. Also banning weapons only keeps the clean people from having them, Crooks and criminals will always get what they want no matter how hard it is (drugs anyone?).

Getting back on topic... Do you really want 4 more years of Obama? What has he really done for our nation? We gave Isis the right to make nukes, and our people a failing (and all but forced) healthcare system.

And second why would you want Bernie to bring our nation closer to Socialism? I just don't understand why. Wealth isn't just something that should (you can because free market and is should always be your choice but getting back to finishing the sentence..) be distributed equally just because those above you say so without that, there's no incentive to work hard: Just imagine how hard everyone would work if we all had to work together to make a CS mod and everyone grafted in would be forced to contribute toward it and someone who doesn't care about the individuality of our contributions toward it and has no desire to make it unnecessarily better than above par as long as it brings in enough to give him a good share of the wealth generated from it and keeps the group self sustained... barely.

You would have no incentive, or at least I wouldn't, that's for damn sure. (also if any of this comes off as angry at this point, I'm not really I'm just trying to make a point, you aren't upsetting me or anything, only tyranny upsets me.)
Even back in america when the Mayflower was sitting on the shores; they tried communism. Everyone knows the tale of how the almost died and then an indian showed up that spoke english and helped them prepare for the winter and had teh first thanksgiving ect ect ect.

Well, up to that point they had been living in a communistic society; everyone works and puts food made into a pool and rations were divided equally, and admittedly it worked decently well; However, the next year wasn't the same, people realised that they didn't have to work as hard and would still get the same amount of rations, now that survival wasn't so critically close to being gone this in turn got them to start being lazy. It also began to stur the questions of the diligent workers, who would see the other not working as hard, and they wanted compensation for their true efforts that were above everyone else's. The only way to do this was to to make a free market and give individual rights to people and let them own property. And thus their wish was granted, and thank god it was.

Now how true the above story is, I don't know, and should be taken with a grain of salt, however the proverb behind it shouldn't be taken so lightly.

I realise that I'm talking about pure socialism at the moment; but the principal is the same, if 80% of what you make is taken away in taxes and given to the government to make their academies an sky scrapers look even taller, shinier, and cooler looking on top of sending everyone home with a fat paycheck of 6 figures a year, then that is tyranny. hundreds of hundreds of thousands of dollars are wasted every year; because nobody in office cares, because they walk away with the same paycheck every month; paradice to them is to keep their job by doing the minimum, and being able to go fishing with their buddies on the weekend; they have no care for the common people, at least most don't; and I find that very hateful; Government shouldn't be a full employment, it should be a hobby for the dedicated.

Our forefathers were farmers; they had to work to live, you worked as a politician for only a few months out of the year, trying to get elected a president or governor, and then you went home to tend to your farm when you were done, you got some form of pay for giving time, but it wasn't a full time job; and that is the truely the fatal flaw with our systems workings today.

At my job, I work with my grandfather building apartments from the ground up, we do it all (minus plumbing and electric) And every week it's like we have to put up with some regulation that makes me want to just throw up. up from to build the place, it cost $35,000 dollars for..... nothing, a fancy piece of paper that say that we can build on our own property, and the reason they charge it is because they know we have it because we're building buildings that cost $250,000 aprox. And then every once in awhile someone from the safety building department has to come along and try to milk more money out of us by trying to catch up building things in the wrong way and/ or not being safe. like being more then 12 feet off the ground without a harness or a rail or not having a secured ladder: and it's a costly $600 to be caught. and it's their words against yours. (not to mention most of the people that work for them are failed contractors.)

So yeah I have a few bones to pick with at least local government, tyranny at it's finest

If you make more then the average money, you will be tracked down by the authorities in one way or another and they are going to try to take their fair share, no matter what party, race and possibly morals.
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 2:47 AM
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blink I'm gonna be dead honest and say I stopped reading that post as soon as you implied syrian = terrorist
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 3:00 AM
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I like big butts and I cannot lie

None of the candidates have nice butts iirc
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 5:02 AM
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blink I'm gonna be dead honest and say I stopped reading that post as soon as you implied syrian = terrorist

I didn't imply anything.

I don't hate syrians, I hate the terrorists, it's simple. Every apple is a fruit, but not every fruit is an apple.
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 7:00 PM
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I stopped reading at that line, too.

As for the candidates, I don't have much faith in any of them, but it's not my time to vote yet anyhow.
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 8:22 PM
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I'm voting for trump because no other candidate has such fine ass hair
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 8:24 PM
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@BLink capitalism will only continue to work as long as there's work that needs to be done. That is, as long as doing labor is profitable for the capital owners paying for the labor (business owners paying salaries). But we're moving towards a society where we're going to run out of work soon. I don't know if you've seen this video ( Humans need not apply ), but automation is most likely on course to get rid of most of the jobs people do, and especially the jobs that blue collar workers make their bread and butter from. Once these jobs are gone, what will happen to these workers? It won't be profitable for the capital owners to pay them to do jobs that need not be done, that's for sure. I'm not saying the states should make a direct move to pure socialism, but maybe having Bernie move things a little more to the left might ease the growing pains as the world's work situation changes here.
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 8:50 PM
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I don't know who to vote for. I just really think that all forms of economics are likely to do badly, due to human greed and laziness. Communism may have a lot less poor, but at the cost of poorer work coming from the people. Capitalism may allow for products to be more competitive to be better, but it also leads to deception, and people who are lazy take shortcuts or give up, leading to crime and homelessness. I can't really see those problems ever disappearing because of the way humans are. Communism would work if people only cared for the whole of the group. Capitalism would work if people were kind to others and told the plain truth. If humans were perfect, there would be no need for economics or government, after all.
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 8:54 PM
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Socialism ≠ Communism
 
Dec 29, 2015 at 9:46 PM
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Warning, fuckhuge reply
What policies if I might ask, I'm not very keen on this stuff but since I'm 18 I really need to educate myself.
For one, he wants to modify the tax brackets so that the wealthy (more specifically the top 1%) pay what he considers to be a fair amount. At the moment, the wealthiest people in the country are paying just under 40% of their taxable income. Sanders wants to increase the top marginal income tax rate to help pay for some of the policies he wants to put in place, such as increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020, making public colleges tuition free, guaranteeing healthcare to all citizens, requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid leave, etc. Of course all of that can't be done simply by increasing taxes on the rich, so he also wants to close many loopholes that exist in the tax system, put a speculation tax on Wall Street, spend less money on incarceration (by decriminalizing marijuana, for one), etc. This basically only covers what he wants to do with the economy, and I'm really on scratching the surface here. If you want to look into his stance on other issues, this is the place to look.
1: Why is the environment and LGBT a concern right NOW? We have freaking (correct me if the following number is incorrect) 10,000 terrorists/refugees dumped into the US like 2 months ago, and we basically have a war on our hands against Isis and the terrorists that want to shoot our guts out because of what we believe. Isis is no laughing matter, they've killed plenty and aren't afraid to kill more of us to spread their lies and tyranny trying to convert everyone to follow Allah and shoot those who don't.
The environment is a huge concern now because if we don't do anything about it in the very, very near future, we could have something exponentially more detrimental than ISIS or any terrorist group. Thanks to the United Nations Climate Change Conference that just took place, all 195 countries unanimously agreed that they must reduce greenhouse gas emissions. This agreement is non-binding, so there would be no penalty if other countries don't keep to their word, but the fact that we took this first step is important regardless. If this had happened any later, it may have been too late. Places like my current state of Florida could be flooded (not to mention the countless islands that would cease to exist). Temperatures in the Middle East could rise to an unlivable standard. And heck, it still might be too late. It may take a while to see the true consequences of our pollution, but we're already starting to see it take effect now to a certain degree (no pun intended).

On the topic of Syrian refugees, all refugees go through an extremely rigorous screening process. The chance of terrorists getting through is very unlikely. With that said, I am not afraid of a terrorist making it to the country. I am more afraid of Americans shooting up schools with their legally acquired weapons. But I guess I'll get to that in a second with your next point.
Oh yeah and more gun control is being pushed by the democrats to get the weapons out of our hands. (remember that basketball pro's family that did an add on christmas?)
Why do they want to get guns out of our hands? Because they can't control us if we have weapons. Once a japanese military commander/general (I forget) was asked if they would ever to think to invade the US, his Responce was.... No, there is a gun hiding behind every tree. Also banning weapons only keeps the clean people from having them, Crooks and criminals will always get what they want no matter how hard it is (drugs anyone?).
I have not heard about that Christmas story, no. Your claim that the Democrats want to 'take away all of our guns' to me seems nothing short of paranoia. They have never said they wanted to ban all guns, but rather to strengthen up background checks, ban military-style assault weapons, and improve mental health awareness. Basically, do what other countries without major shootings on a frequent basis have been doing for years now.
Getting back on topic... Do you really want 4 more years of Obama? What has he really done for our nation? We gave Isis the right to make nukes, and our people a failing (and all but forced) healthcare system.
He gave ISIS the right to make nukes? Are you talking about the Iran Nuclear Deal? I admit I am not well-educated on that topic, but again, I feel like you are being paranoid and jumping to conclusions. I also haven't done much research on Obamacare. From what I understand, it is broken and in need of a major reform, but it does still help a handful of people who cannot receive healthcare benefits from their jobs. As far as I know, the Democratic candidates want to try and fix it, while the Republican candidates want to get rid of it entirely. Correct me if I'm wrong.
And second why would you want Bernie to bring our nation closer to Socialism? I just don't understand why. Wealth isn't just something that should (you can because free market and is should always be your choice but getting back to finishing the sentence..) be distributed equally just because those above you say so without that, there's no incentive to work hard: Just imagine how hard everyone would work if we all had to work together to make a CS mod and everyone grafted in would be forced to contribute toward it and someone who doesn't care about the individuality of our contributions toward it and has no desire to make it unnecessarily better than above par as long as it brings in enough to give him a good share of the wealth generated from it and keeps the group self sustained... barely.
Sanders is not a Communist, which to me sounds like what you are describing. He basically just wants the richer to pay more and to close the many tax loopholes they use to end up paying less than middle class workers. Have you ever heard of the Buffett Rule? "...[Warren Buffett] believed it was wrong that rich people, like himself, could pay less in federal taxes, as a portion of income, than the middle class..." Think too of Social Security, a Socialist type of program. It's one of the most important (albeit expensive) programs in American history. I am against Communism, and I do not think that Sanders would want to enact Communist policies (nor would he be able to because of Congress).
I realise that I'm talking about pure socialism at the moment; but the principal is the same, if 80% of what you make is taken away in taxes and given to the government to make their academies an sky scrapers look even taller, shinier, and cooler looking on top of sending everyone home with a fat paycheck of 6 figures a year, then that is tyranny. hundreds of hundreds of thousands of dollars are wasted every year; because nobody in office cares, because they walk away with the same paycheck every month; paradice to them is to keep their job by doing the minimum, and being able to go fishing with their buddies on the weekend; they have no care for the common people, at least most don't; and I find that very hateful; Government shouldn't be a full employment, it should be a hobby for the dedicated.
Do you distrust government that much? Then why would you want anyone in office to begin with? I disagree with government as a hobby. It's much too complex for it to only be someone's hobby. Our government (and politics in general) is much bigger than it was many centuries ago, and thus the job must evolve with it. And what makes you think those with government as a hobby would be less corrupt than those with it as a job? That seems like very flawed logic to me. Especially because it's society that votes these people in. If we didn't have such low voter turnouts (with only about 55% of people voting in the 2012 election. That's not even to speak of state and local elections) and if voters made more informed decisions (I once listened to a girl in my College class say that she only voted for this one person "because she was a girl"), then maybe we would have those changes that so many people complain that they want.
If you make more then the average money, you will be tracked down by the authorities in one way or another and they are going to try to take their fair share, no matter what party, race and possibly morals.
Well I mean yeah, that's kind of how taxes work. I don't think that the government collecting taxes is like a loan shark trying to get some guy to fork over the cash he owes (which, to me, is the way you're describing it), but taxes are a necessary evil. If we can get more money from the top 1% by patching up tax loopholes and increasing the top marginal income tax rate and then distributing that money back to the middle class, that sounds fair to me. And I can't see it stifling innovation unless the government starts taxing a huge percentage of their income (something like 90%, for example).

Hopefully I opened up your mind, even just a little bit. Also, I'd like to mirror what you said before about not trying to make you/anyone upset. Alsoalso, please feel free to try and refute or correct me on any of my claims.
 
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