Mod Vs. Hack

Feb 21, 2011 at 12:26 AM
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Actually, it is a hack. Even unwillingly, the bubbler is hacked. Therefore, this mod is a hack.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 12:49 AM
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Re: Jenka's Nightmare Revived

Explain to me, in detail, how the bubbler has been hacked.

Also, please do fix my name on your site D:
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 12:53 AM
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Re: Jenka's Nightmare Revived

Try and find it, and you'll see :awesomeface:

Also, I've ditched the site. Maybe later.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:01 AM
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Re: Jenka's Nightmare Revived

Changing the values for damage and "number of times hit" for a bullet in CE does not make it a hack. A hack would go further than just using a modding tool, and would change some of the compiled code.

I will have to ask you, yet again, to please refer to your mod using the proper terms.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:16 AM
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Damnit Nu

What is this 'proper term'? Why so defensive about it?

For the actual defintions of Hack and Modification {I'll assume Modication, since the actual word Mod would have nothing to do with any of this}, as off of Merriam-Webster, Modification would indeed work best for every single mod on this forum, no exceptions. They're all modifications, changes, of the original Cave Story, so no matter how much you change the code, through simple Cave Editor or Assembly, it's still a Modification.
It also doesn't matter what definition of Hack you pick. The closet any of the 'mods' get to being a hack is 'to write computer programs for enjoyment', which would also apply to every single 'mod' out there. Otherwise, it'd suit things like Cave Editor far better than anything else, as it could also mean 'an implement for hacking'. Also, 'a usually creative solution to a computer hardware or programming problem or limitation' could also apply to anything from Assembly to a TSC work-around.

So why so serious? I don't see these so called 'proper terms', or even a reason to be so nitpicky over them...
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:21 AM
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Re: Damnit Nu

VoidMage_Lowell said:
What is this 'proper term'? Why so defensive about it?

For the actual defintions of Hack and Modification {I'll assume Modication, since the actual word Mod would have nothing to do with any of this}, as off of Merriam-Webster, Modification would indeed work best for every single mod on this forum, no exceptions. They're all modifications, changes, of the original Cave Story, so no matter how much you change the code, through simple Cave Editor or Assembly, it's still a Modification.
It also doesn't matter what definition of Hack you pick. The closet any of the 'mods' get to being a hack is 'to write computer programs for enjoyment', which would also apply to every single 'mod' out there. Otherwise, it'd suit things like Cave Editor far better than anything else, as it could also mean 'an implement for hacking'. Also, 'a usually creative solution to a computer hardware or programming problem or limitation' could also apply to anything from Assembly to a TSC work-around.

So why so serious? I don't see these so called 'proper terms', or even a reason to be so nitpicky over them...

I prefer to call mine a mod too, even though some may refer to it as a hack.

And I don't know, it just feels like that if you haven't made any hacks in it, you don't deserve to use the term.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:23 AM
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In a community of 'hacking and modding', I think it is reasonable to assume that we can/have developed a localized definition of the words, in a sense incorporated them into our own jargon if you will. It's not like this is a new argument.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:24 AM
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Re: Jenka's Nightmare Revived

You don't have to yell, GIR.
And it IS a hack. I didn't change the values with bullet npc. I actually changed the bolt damage with XVII.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:27 AM
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I'm not exploding here, people

GIRakaCHEEZER said:
And I don't know, it just feels like that if you haven't made any hacks in it, you don't deserve to use the term.
But what is a 'hack', is my point.
I realize what you're trying to say, Assembly is what you consider a Hack, and anyone trying to say they've made a Hack and hasn't put in the effort for Assembly is what offends you, but this is so much of a more nickname basis that you'd confuse a lot of people like this.
LunarSoul said:
You don't have to yell, GIR.
That's not yelling, that's a typical Lowell-based rant.
Noxid said:
In a community of 'hacking and modding', I think it is reasonable to assume that we can/have developed a localized definition of the words, in a sense incorporated them into our own jargon if you will. It's not like this is a new argument.
I note that too, but I also doubt every single one of us is thinking the exact same thing for the words, hence the pop-up of these arguments.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:33 AM
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VoidMage_Lowell said:
I note that too, but I also doubt every single one of us is thinking the exact same thing for the words, hence the pop-up of these arguments.

Well see that is why we try to correct people when they use them wrong, to eliminate the confusion and have more clearly defined terminology.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:34 AM
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Re: Jenka's Nightmare Revived

What are you people, communists?
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:37 AM
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Maybe we should set up a gathering for this...

Noxid said:
Well see that is why we try to correct people when they use them wrong, to eliminate the confusion and have more clearly defined terminology.
That's my whole point, what is the 'correct' form...?
Mod = Cave Story Mod minus Assembly
Hack = Cave Story Mod plus Assembly ?
Or all of these are Mods, and Hacks refer to using the complicated Assembly to do stuff?
None of which I'd really agree with fully...
LunarSoul said:
What are you people, communists?
We'd have Jupiter all to ourselves, then.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:40 AM
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Re: Jenka's Nightmare Revived

What is it with my topics and off-topic rants?
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:46 AM
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Good point. Split...
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:47 AM
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Thanks, man. It's good to have modders around.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 1:51 AM
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A mod should be a Cave Story mod. Cave Story hacks also fall into the Cave Story mod category.

A hack should have some of the code itself edited in a visible manner. Like changing how a tile works, or adding a new entity (like carrotlord's "The witching hour").

I remember a thread similar to this.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 2:02 AM
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I'm so not helpful with this

What does 'Edited in a visible manner' pertain to, though...?
I could agree, if you wanted to, that simply using Cave Editor's simple and easy features wouldn't really result in a 'hack', compared to handcoding a new weapon in Assembly... That could be clumped under Mod, I suppose...{Though the new features on Cave Editor are starting to really blur the line, such as the easy-to-modify bullet settings, what about that? Considering it could fall under 'hack' before such features}
And what about the inbetween?
I assume Hex editing could fall under a 'hack', for instance?

I'd also like to point out, that if this was how the words were defined around here, making any sort of 'hack' would be pretty darn easy by following any simple guide around here, then, as well. {Since it seems newbs using the word seems to cause ruckus on a few occasions... Looking back at the arguments before this}
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 2:08 AM
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I guess what I mean by "in a visible manner" is changing it so it does something different, behavior wise. An example of a "hack" that would not fall into the category of hack would be, say, making the TSC parser more efficient (since if this was a mod's only hack, then you wouldn't notice it). Also hex editing probably wouldn't fall under this if you were editing damage values or something, since although they would be noticable, the behavior would remain essentially the same.
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 2:15 AM
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This could be big

I don't know if I either don't follow, or really agree with you, then...
I could see making the TSC parser more efficient as being a 'Hack', now that I accidentally started drawing out my own definition of the whole thing... Damnit Gir.

I think I'd like to wait and see what most of the older members consider a 'Hack', though.
If we honestly want to properly define these terms and such for use on these forums, probably would be best to hear everyone and form something we can all agree on somewhat...
 
Feb 21, 2011 at 2:25 AM
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Re: This could be big

VoidMage_Lowell said:
I could see making the TSC parser more efficient as being a 'Hack', now that I accidentally started drawing out my own definition of the whole thing... Damnit Gir.

The reason I wouldn't call a mod with the TSC parser being more efficient a hack is because without being told, you wouldn't know it was a hack. You could basically apply the TSC parser hack to the original CS and you wouldn't be able to tell you weren't playing the original CS.
 
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