Do you believe Nicalis stole the rights

Dec 21, 2019 at 3:16 AM
Junior Member
"Wahoo! Upgrade!"
Join Date: Dec 14, 2019
Location: Yes
Posts: 48
There has been a lot of discussion about this recently. If you believe either way, can you say what you believe the specifics are.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 3:32 AM
Senior Member
CSE Discord Admin
"Fly, Fly, Fly!"
Join Date: Jan 13, 2016
Location:
Posts: 132
Personally, I want to know who holds copyright over Cave Story's original source code.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 3:52 PM
Senior Member
"Huzzah!"
Join Date: Mar 25, 2019
Location:
Posts: 206
I don't think so(?) because that would have been illegal?
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 5:13 PM
Everything you hate about humanity
"Big Joe Tire and Battery Restaurant! Opening Soon! Eat at Big Joes!"
Join Date: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Hell
Posts: 544
From what I've heard the general idea is:
-Pixel signed an agreement back in the Wiiware era for CS+
-Nicalis put specifics in the contract that were hard to notice
-These specifics essentially gave Nicalis full control over Cave Story

-This is why there isn't a sequel to Cave Story (Though Tyrone teased at one in one of his more recent posts in response to me)
-This is why we don't have Beta Cvae Story
-This is why Pixel avoids talking about Cave Story

The only real counter evidence we have is the presence of Cave Story songs in future Pixel games.

Edit : For clarification, these are the allegations made by users on Twitter, not my beliefs
 
Last edited:
Dec 21, 2019 at 5:16 PM
Senior Member
"Huzzah!"
Join Date: Aug 21, 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 199
Age: 15
From what I've heard the general idea is:
-Pixel signed an agreement back in the Wiiware era for CS+
-Nicalis put specifics in the contract that were hard to notice
-These specifics essentially gave Nicalis full control over Cave Story

-This is why there isn't a sequel to Cave Story (Though Tyrone teased at one in one of his more recent posts in response to me)
-This is why we don't have Beta Cvae Story
-This is why Pixel avoids talking about Cave Story

The only real counter evidence we have is the presence of Cave Story songs in future Pixel games.
Nicalis sort of ruined cave story in a way.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 5:40 PM
Everything you hate about humanity
"Big Joe Tire and Battery Restaurant! Opening Soon! Eat at Big Joes!"
Join Date: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Hell
Posts: 544
Thanks for adding nothing constructive to the conversation

But yes, It seems that NICALiS is holding back Pixel in some way.

If it were up to Pixel he'd most definitely be working with Playism to release Cave Story and possible spinoffs of it.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 6:01 PM
Soup Man
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 15, 2014
Location: IN YOUR HEAD, SHIT FOR BRAINS
Posts: 670
Age: 5
Thanks for adding nothing constructive to the conversation

But yes, It seems that NICALiS is holding back Pixel in some way.

If it were up to Pixel he'd most definitely be working with Playism to release Cave Story and possible spinoffs of it.
Nicalis sort of ruined cave story in a way.

we have no way to know if pixel still genuinely likes cave story enough to want to put it on other platforms / make spinoffs. it's been 15 years since he first released it, and while its his most popular game, he's already tried making other games (rockfish and kero blaster)
for all we know maybe pixel just got bored of it after 15 years and nicalis has nothing to do with it.

but yes the most likely scenario is that NICALiS sucks and snuck a "you now forfeit all rights to cave story and your firstborn child" into the contract somewhere

edit: that last line seems somewhat sarcastic but i was being entirely serious
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 6:58 PM
The TideWalker
Modding Community Discord Founder
"That dog!"
Join Date: Apr 5, 2013
Location: In my mind and of my body.
Posts: 1638
Age: 24
Dec 21, 2019 at 7:18 PM
Best Cow
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jun 27, 2013
Location:
Posts: 2644
Age: 27
Tbh, if people are that bothered by Tyrone and Nicalis, we can just say Hatsune Miku owns Cave Story. I mean, Notch is a far better person than Tyrone, but the "Miku made Minecraft" meme has been spread in a more positive light, so maybe the same can be done for Cave Story.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 7:33 PM
Soup Man
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 15, 2014
Location: IN YOUR HEAD, SHIT FOR BRAINS
Posts: 670
Age: 5
Considering that NiCALiS is literally hiding the fact that fans are pissed with them over the rights, I think it's pretty safe to say that at least some truth in these complaints. If the truth was different, I'm sure NiCALiS would come forward and say so. Instead they literally decide to not even credit pixel in the 15th anniversary tweet so take from that what you will.
did you credit pixel in your "happy birthday cave story" tweet? i know i didnt because it never crossed my mind. i didnt credit tyrone either.
maybe they're hiding the tweets because they're toxic? regardless of whether or not nicalis did what everyone is complaining about, they'd probably be doing this either way. hiding tweets is by no means solid evidence for anything, its the same as some salty twitter user blocking anyone who criticizes them. it's not good, but it's useless to complain about.

Tbh, if people are that bothered by Tyrone and Nicalis, we can just say Hatsune Miku owns Cave Story. I mean, Notch is a far better person than Tyrone, but the "Miku made Minecraft" meme has been spread in a more positive light, so maybe the same can be done for Cave Story.
hot take but that meme was never funny
why dont we just say pixel owns cave story because he literally made it
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 7:36 PM
Everything you hate about humanity
"Big Joe Tire and Battery Restaurant! Opening Soon! Eat at Big Joes!"
Join Date: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Hell
Posts: 544
why dont we just say pixel owns cave story because he literally made it
Because legally, he might not own the rights to it :4head:

Most we can hope for is some clarification by @tyrone to see what he thinks and if any steps will be taken to mend the situation at all, rather than simple censorship.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 7:47 PM
Soup Man
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 15, 2014
Location: IN YOUR HEAD, SHIT FOR BRAINS
Posts: 670
Age: 5
Because legally, he might not own the rights to it :4head:

Most we can hope for is some clarification by @tyrone to see what he thinks and if any steps will be taken to mend the situation at all, rather than simple censorship.
and does hatsune miku somehow actually own the rights to cave story?
my point was that instead of saying hatsune miku owned cave story, it would make more sense to say pixel did in terms of that specific joke.
nowhere did i say pixel actually owned the rights :4head:

another note, i doubt tyrone will respond to some mild twitter drama that doesn't even relate to him this time. this rumor has been circulating for years and tyrone never did or said anything about it. why would a few twitter comments / a forum thread make it any different when the forums have had this same conversation countless times. nicalis does not care and its clear that pixel probably doesnt either since he barely talks about the game. if nicalis screwed him over that badly he would probably be more vocal about it, especially after that other nicalis drama a few months ago.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 8:33 PM
Senior Member
"Wahoo! Upgrade!"
Join Date: Dec 22, 2018
Location: Sand Zone Residence
Posts: 55
-This is why there isn't a sequel to Cave Story
If there was a sequel to the game, Nicalis (please for the love of God use the right capitalization, everyone) would make it. It might be in works, who knows? But knowing how toxic this fandom can be when it comes to Nicalis, I don't think they would want to release it.

This is why we don't have Beta Cvae Story
No, it was Pixel's decision to not release the beta. He thought of it as too buggy, which is understandable. I wouldn't want to publish my old, buggy, and cringy software now either.

This is why Pixel avoids talking about Cave Story
Why would he talk about Cave Story (a 15 year old game) when he has published a newer game that he can talk about and promote? Especially considering the toxicity of the fandom.

Considering that NiCALiS is literally hiding the fact that fans are pissed with them over the rights, I think it's pretty safe to say that at least some truth in these complaints. If the truth was different, I'm sure NiCALiS would come forward and say so.
As if that would matter anything to you. You and everyone else with a hateboner for Nicalis* would just say they're lying if they actually responded to the accusations. Hell. You'd even say Pixel was forced to lie about it if he responded instead of Nicalis. Like Cyber said, there's nothing wrong with hiding toxic replies.

Because legally, he might not own the rights to it
Nicalis owns the IP, but Pixel still has rights to it. It's literally how most video game publisher companies work.

Do you really think that if Pixel actually got tricked into signing a shady contract, nobody would have told him already? It's been years now since their partnership. Pixel still hangs out with Tyrone, still gets revenue from the Cave Story sales, and is still in a good terms with Nicalis. Do you really think he's not happy with his partnership? You're basically saying that Pixel is "too dumb to notice that he got fucked over by Nicalis". If you really care about Pixel, would you make this accusation even though he's clearly not angry with Tyrone/Nicalis and (like he mentioned) gets a percentage of the sales?
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 8:41 PM
Best Cow
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jun 27, 2013
Location:
Posts: 2644
Age: 27
But knowing how toxic this fandom can be when it comes to Nicalis
Especially considering the toxicity of the fandom.
Now, i don't know what goes on in Twitter or even the now-defunct Cave Story subreddit. But should you want to know why they're usually to blame here, Tyrone/Nicalis are just our common scapegoat for many things. Afaik this community doesn't really have much against them, they're just the butt of all jokes. We knew all along that they're pretty bad (be it based on the subject on this thread, the racist/sexist allegations, or anything else really), but it just all blew up when everybody else in the fandom found out and sparked even more conversations.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 8:48 PM
Senior Member
"Wahoo! Upgrade!"
Join Date: Dec 22, 2018
Location: Sand Zone Residence
Posts: 55
I was mostly referring to the Twitter replies, since that's what Nicalis/Tyrone sees the most often. 98% of the replies to the anniversary tweet were "HURR HURR GIVE IT BACK TO PIXEL" (which basically means take away every form of income for the game from Pixel), which not only comes off as toxic but also really annoying (hence why they're hiding the tweets). I got blocked by someone on Twitter over trying to reasonably tell them why their accusations were wrong and unjustified. If that's not toxicity, I don't know what is.

To Nicalis/Tyrone, this is like a glimpse of the fandom's personality. It really doesn't do good for all of us, which is why I'm saddened by those replies. At least I'm glad Tyrone has been active in some communities in the past so he doesn't have such a generally bad idea about the fandom.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 9:04 PM
The TideWalker
Modding Community Discord Founder
"That dog!"
Join Date: Apr 5, 2013
Location: In my mind and of my body.
Posts: 1638
Age: 24
You and everyone else with a hateboner for Nicalis*

I think that some people could have a right to dislike NiCALiS. When you sell a previously free game with next to no extra content, ("new weapons and new characters, are something that we're really taking into consideration.") Break the Mac Version, use the Aeon Genesis translation as a base without giving credit (we know this because the broken waterway script in the Aeon genesis translation and CS+ for PC), and have (subjectively) amateur work done for the pixel art's 2X upscale. (Yes, I know pixel approved of the 2X art, bad choice on his part, if it was actually his choice.)

...would just say they're lying if they actually responded to the accusations. Hell. You'd even say Pixel was forced to lie about it if he responded instead of Nicalis.

That's really... not nice to say to people? What did I do exactly to be talked too like this? I don't think "it's pretty safe to say that at least some truth in these complaints." deserves for you to say that I'm somebody who wouldn't want to, objectively as possible, look at all evidence fairly? All I did was post a link to some tweets that actually exist, and give some commentary on it. I think you're the one with a "hateboner" here. >_>
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 9:23 PM
Everything you hate about humanity
"Big Joe Tire and Battery Restaurant! Opening Soon! Eat at Big Joes!"
Join Date: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Hell
Posts: 544
To be fair the only bad part of the upscale was probably only really Quote and Curly's sprites

I just think there's a lack of communication from NICALiS in regards to Cave Story

It's extremely profitable even in 2019, if a sequel was released or if they just recycled the beta, it would probably fly off of shelves just due to how influential Cave Story was as a game. For all I care with the right mindset Tyrone and Pixel could get people like Toby Fox to help them develop another installment and it'd probably send shock waves through the entire gaming industry.

A fandom that has been mostly ignored is not going to respond kindly to the company in charge of the thing they enjoy, especially if they don't give them what they want in a timely manner. NICALiS has the money to create things at a pretty steady rate, if they buckled down and put in the effort to make a major game that wasn't something that felt like a side-game such as Crystal Crisis, they could probably outdo most of the developers whose titles they publish.

It's not really hate that I feel towards NICALiS, moreso concern and a "I know you can do better than this"
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 10:42 PM
Soup Man
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 15, 2014
Location: IN YOUR HEAD, SHIT FOR BRAINS
Posts: 670
Age: 5
It's extremely profitable even in 2019, if a sequel was released or if they just recycled the beta, it would probably fly off of shelves just due to how influential Cave Story was as a game. For all I care with the right mindset Tyrone and Pixel could get people like Toby Fox to help them develop another installment and it'd probably send shock waves through the entire gaming industry.
I would love to see something like this, but with how poorly NICALiS has handled every port of everything they've ever worked with, I highly doubt it's a possibility unless they get a ton of help or get their act together. I do feel like a Cave Story 2 using a similar engine would be great, but I'd rather they don't touch the original characters unless it's just some sort of passing mention / reference to them, since I don't really see where a truly good cave story sequel can come from (without a huge timeskip / alternate universe) since most of the major plot threads got wrapped up pretty well in the original game.

I do hope that NICALiS gets their act together and the people on twitter stop whining though. yes their ports are bad but spreading rumors that they stole the rights to a game is just unnecessary and will probably make it harder for NICALiS to perform better in the long run.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 10:49 PM
Everything you hate about humanity
"Big Joe Tire and Battery Restaurant! Opening Soon! Eat at Big Joes!"
Join Date: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Hell
Posts: 544
but with how poorly NICALiS has handled every port of everything they've ever worked with
3DS eShop/DSIware ports were good

Switch port is arguably the best port by far considering all the visual enhancements it brings to the table (And the Ridiculon soundtrack that apparently only I like)

Wiiware was cool for its time, didn't need to add much because just getting the game on a console is a big deal

CS+ on PC is underwhelming especially with the fact that they haven't updated it with the Switch version's features.
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 10:56 PM
Junior Member
"Wahoo! Upgrade!"
Join Date: Dec 14, 2019
Location: Yes
Posts: 48
-This is why there isn't a sequel to Cave Story (Though Tyrone teased at one in one of his more recent posts in response to me)
-This is why we don't have Beta Cvae Story
-This is why Pixel avoids talking about Cave Story
I was actually looking into sequel claims last night. In 2010 and 2014 he stated that he didn’t really want to make one (2010: https://www.destructoid.com/cave-story-creator-talks-inspirations-sequel-and-more-168541.phtml, 2014: https://www.destructoid.com/cave-st...-to-quit-working-with-publishers-275541.phtml) Also, i remember reading something about the beta saying it wouldn’t be released because Pixel said it was too buggy, but that may be wrong.
 
Top