A compilation of e̶v̶e̶r̶y fifty little errors in Cave Story 3DS

Jun 1, 2013 at 5:40 PM
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Because remember! If it's a little thing, it doesn't matter THAT MUCH!



These are recapped from memory after having played through the game twice (I don't have many games to play in the washroom, it was this or Wario Land 2/3. Honestly the latter would have been a better idea)



This will be divided into sections for each general category it falls under. If you have noticed some of your own, feel free to also point it out if I missed it.



MAP SYSTEM



1) The grid isn't a grid at all, and will resize itself in an attempt to fit-to-screen the map dimensions.



2) When fit-to-screening the map dimensions, the 'squares' of the grid become rectangles.



3) Many instances where the map is clearly tiled after the original game. Some walls are moved, background assets are changed (and often removed because of an actual background instead of a tiling image), rearranging save points and rest stations.



4) Pointing out every goddamn thing on the map in general. I mean, really? You had to point out the obvious teleporter was in fact a teleporter on the map screen?



5) Despite resizing to fit, the map screen will often scroll around as you move anyway. What was the point? Why couldn't it have done this at a fixed ratio instead of squish into rectangles?



6) The blocks on the grid aren't even filled in correctly. Coloring starts at the top left corner just outside where the actual 'grid' part of the grid is lined out, and then fades away before the bottom right. But this also, in the case of actual walls, fades out beyond the top left border as well, creating a misaligned effect that doesn't even LOOK LIKE whatever LED style they were going for.



7) Showing all exits, including secret exits. Clock room.



8) Despite the clock room being shown as a bright green tile to signify an exit, like any other, the additional 'inner wall' secret room is actually depicted on the map in a faded green. Meaning they cared about secrets they added to make a buck with throwing a dancing prinny on the island (which means that, yes, Cave Story takes place in the same universe as THESE GUYS), and not about the secrets in the game itself. Yes, I know the game is almost a decade old now. Yes, I know the only people who have bought every iteration are people who played the original but were stupid enough to think that after taxes and general developmental contracting fees Pixel gets any revenue beyond a few cents a purchase. But admitting it doesn't do anyone any favors except the people who will inevitably trash this topic on the grounds of me showing a large list of mixed nitpicks, ignoring the fact that they very obviously culminate into a giant fucking WALL. Moving on!



3D perspective



9) The game still tiles events on a 2D grid, while the actual design of the map depicts doors and other objects, such as Chako's fireplace, at an angle.



10) The streams of light used to depict doors also spoils the existence of the Outer Wall in itself. Because changing one tile into another was something the original game didn't know how to do.



11) Of all additional life capsules they crammed into the game based on the userbase of people who think Super Mario Bros. is too difficult without being able to save your game part-way through a level, at least three I can think of are exceptionally difficult to see due to the walls deliberately blocking visual access unless you pay careful attention to the pixels, which I'm fairly confident Classic mode proves they don't know exist as a whole (ironic "game creator gets little revenue" statement repeated here). One instance, the waterway, proves this to be really fucking retarded, because you can't even see it until your perspective changes to underneith the capsule, in which case you can't go back and get it because there's a wall of water blocking your way, and the Curly cutscene happened all of 10 seconds prior. TOUGH LUCK GOTTA PLAY THE FIRST FOUR HOURS OF THE GAME AGAIN LOL.



12) You know what, the waterway in general. Unless you know exactly how the original game plays out, I fail to understand how you can see some of the shit coming with how zoomed out the camera gets toward the bottom.



13) The opening room in Sacred Grounds. Ugh.



Animations



14) King proceeds to face away from both Toroko and the Doctor during the cutscene. I guess there was a shiny quarter that caught his eye somewhere in the foreground off to the left.



15-20) Teleporting is really dumb. You effectively appear or reappear instantaneously, and I will list each separate instance as follows:



15) The general teleporter will make you vanish or appear and then flicker its lights after you've already been deleted.



16) On that note, there's no actual animation of Quote 'gradually vanishing'. He just ceases existence.



17) When Misery teleports in, she just sort of appears. Again, no 'gradual wipe fade'.



18) Same shit when she teleports you to labyrinth.



19) When she teleports Balrog to labyrinth, he exhibits the ability to sort of squish together. If this was the original idea of teleporting in this game, it would have been fine - however, he does so several seconds AFTER she supposedly teleports, and Misery winds up saying 'GOLLY GEE WILLIKERS THAT FELT SPLENDID' while Balrog is still on-screen. Making Misery look worse than the re-translated dialog already does.



20) Fifth verse, same as the first with the Doctor fight. He just shakes and then is suddenly elsewhere in the room, suspended in the air unrealistically while the game processes what was originally his teleport animation, but is now clearly not there at all. Yes, I just called THAT unrealistic in a game about anthropomorphic bunny people, one of which sleeps with you and tucks her lipstick away in your pocket to remember her by. Let's move on.



21) The Flying Gaudi don't quite flicker purple before shooting. This doesn't sound like a problem at all and would be a lot more of a nitpick, but honestly it DOES flicker purple sometimes. It just doesn't feel like doing it consistently enough, and sometimes does it one frame and other times, rarely, the entire original length. I don't even KNOW how you fuck this up.



22) Remember how Momorin shows surprise when you talk with her? CS3D doesn't, and instead you pause and stare at her awkwardly for the same full second, while she fails to move in any way at all.



23) In the additional egg corridor area, the camera is jittery as shit in normal story mode.



24) Monster X's eyes remain open at all times in 3D mode, yet IIRC are closed in 'jpeg sprite' mode. I fail to see how they couldn't render another instance with a closed eye, considering Pixel already did the laziness for them with "it changes off-screen".



25) The fish in Plantation shoot 2D jpeg bubble sprites.



26) I'm pretty sure there are several instances wherein enemy projectiles are 2D jpeg sprites, actually. The plantation fish is just the most noticeable because...



27) The game lags like a motherfucker a lot when there are more than 12 objects on the screen at once. Even if they are 2D jpegs.



28) Booster has no 'bashed up' sprite at all. He just stands there casually like he's fine, then suddenly vanishes from a sudden case of Schrodinger's Booster shortly after you talk with him.



29) When Balrog is transformed into Balfrog, there is no flicker between the two. He just sort of turns into a frog in a single frame.



30) When defeated, Balrog doesn't flicker and remains invisible the entire post-scene, then you have a slight shake for some reason. So from a brand new player perspective, I assume you assume you killed Balrog then and there, only to be confused as shit when he shows up in Sand Zone?



31) Because they wanted to drive home the 3D and high tech, they opted to make the "Igor punches Sue" animation involve actual non-sprite animation. Problematically, the pause between punches is the same as the original game script dictates because the <WAI tag is by far the most diabolical of all game script commands to alter, so Sue winds up screaming in pain before the punch even makes contact, making me assume her hitbox was dislocated to behind Igor's right elbow.



32) When Kasuma catches you with the mimiga mask, there is no 'mimiga mask Quote riding the dragon' render. There was in the original game, and it was expanded on in the freaking Wiiware version, but it was too difficult here.



33) All the doors, save for the one in Egg 00 unironically, do not animate. At all. There is no overlay of a black ovular rectangle or anything. Sometimes there's even a door there and it doesn't play a door sound. Adding <SOU0011 to the script would have wasted too much money.



34) The door Balrog breaks also falls into this. From the inside it's actually broken! But outside the house it looks entirely intact.



2D Jpeg Mode



35) In the additional egg corridor area, all horizontal flying wall beetles are replaced by flying critters. Who fly by flapping their body fat like they're having a seizure.



36) The gaudi purple flicker remains a problem here.



37) Several animations fail to play correctly at all, despite... HAVING the assets, and THE SCRIPT REMAINING MOSTLY THE SAME.



38) Teleporters still vanish you into the aether, but have the courtesy to do so after flickering. Still no wipe animation.



39) IIRC I don't think King actually pulls out his sword at all in the Toroko cutscene. For that matter,



40) Toroko remains standing upright and looking perfectly fine, while Balrog happily shovels red petals in her mouth, and then King casually high fives her for making it the best pill party ever.



41) Ballos doesn't have a closed eye frame at all, nor does he have his fightin' arm behind his back. As with Momorin's "just a minor thing" animation disappearance, the same pause occurs before you can hit him, so you just have to deal with the fact that you can't hurt him until the game feels like it, while in the original it was clearly indicated.



42) In fact, Ballos never actually closes his eyes ever. IIRC they're open the entire 2.5th stage of the fight, rewarding die-hard players who stand in his eye during this sequence with a 'ding' sound, doubling back upon the straightforward establishment all of fifteen seconds prior.



Other shit



43) The functional application of additional life capsules in the game in general. As I said before, and I do mean it entirely unsarcastically, I understand this is intended to be received by a target audience of kids who (admittedly possibly sarcastically) don't know how the morph ball works in Super Metroid. But if you wanted to add more life capsules to the game... why is it being handled so poorly? I don't even mind the addition of life capsules, what I mind is two things:



44) Being forced to receive additional health by event NPCs. 3HP run turns into a 16HP run, because the developers desperately want to make sure you aren't challenged.



45) In conjunction with the above, a LOT of the new life capsules give you exactly 1 HP. What the fuck is the point? Yes, I know it stacks, but why force-feed HP to the player at all when you could instead buff the new capsules, and additionally CUT DOWN on the new capsules? The original game works on HP intervals of 3, 4, and 5 HP. Getting rewarded 1 HP is even more of an insult than winding up with a supposed 100 HP total for finding them all. I guess it's because nobody in this generation can tell the effective value of a single use healing item akin to a megaelixer.



46) The game's credits will use 3D sprites regardless of what mode you beat the game in. Or rather, 2D images of their 3D rendered sprites.



47) Deceased Crab? You mean that guy who is effectively the entire reason the earliest number of us ever learned Cave Story even existed in the first place? Pfft, why the fuck should we list HIM in the 'special thanks' section? What did he ever do for US that we should be thankful for?



48) The game's credits will proceed to assume you've beaten Hell even if you lack the ability to enter the prefab house after beating the doctor. So let's pretend you're a new player and you beat the game with the privilege of not knowing that you COULD save Booster or Curly. Rather than be told of some 'red demon' that you never saw that says 'only cool kids can fight me', you're instead rewarded with a long list of angels and demons as well as a fat man called "Hate and madness given flesh", being listed after the Doctor. You're effectively told of events, including Balrog becoming a friend, while the game still displays other events, including Balrog being a nurse in the labyrinth, because it was too much fucking trouble to work with the credits script that was ALREADY PRE-MADE AND ENTIRELY UNALTERED SAVE FOR THIS CHANGE.



49) The game's credits also shows these side cutscenes, only without any animation at all. I guess it was too much trouble to distract the player from the names of the...



50) QA team. This game had four people on 'Quality Assurance'. Four people missed, were uninformed of, and presumably never played the original game thereby making me wonder how the fuck they were put on QA, all of the above "Minor nitpicks". I understand there are many terrifying instances of play-testing and general communication between tester and programmer, being given a list of things to check for and not given much opportunity to comment on the things they weren't told to test. But with such a small team of people at Nicalis, HOW THE FUCK DO YOU FAIL TO NOTICE THINGS THAT ARE AS BLOODY OBVIOUS AS THE FUCKING TELEPORTER FAILING TO TELEPORT YOU!? Nicalis can fucking bite me.


 
Jun 1, 2013 at 6:23 PM
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oh great
a thread based on insulting nicalis for every tiny thing they do wrong
this is just what we need
 
Jun 1, 2013 at 6:59 PM
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Can't we all agree that Cave story 3D sucks and go home?

Geez-us.
 
Jun 1, 2013 at 7:23 PM
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Cavestory 3D was a failed experiment, even NiCAliS knows that! Cavestory for the eShop was something meant to regain the interest of other displeased consumers, mocked consumers, and new consumers. (Granted, a list of flaws isn't all that important to get angry about, I personally thought this was somewhat entertainment.)
 
Jun 1, 2013 at 7:35 PM
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I was debating with some guy on YouTube a few days ago about how Cave Story 3D wasn't worth it, since you're paying $40 for pretty much only new (and ugly) graphics and slightly expanded levels. I totally forgot to mention the glitches, thank you for the compilation. I'll link this to those that still think CS3D is worth the $40 >_>
 
Jun 1, 2013 at 8:28 PM
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MagicDoors said:
oh great
a thread based on insulting nicalis for every tiny thing they do wrong
this is just what we need
51) They also made Night Sky.

unsarcastic 51) Working on Cave story was 100% a marketability lead to sell Night Sky.


"Hey you know those guys Nicalis who made that AWESOME Wiiware port of that cool indie game Cave Story that one guy worked on for five years then unironically screwed this entire descriptive support onto the indie game, wherein said Wiiware version every sound effect was given the same volume proportions, resulting in the exp-fragments causing a deafening torrent of screeching sounds akin to Satan's laughter?"

"Yeah, what about them?"

"They made a game of their own named Night Sky! It's totally unique and original in that it uses silhouettes over a colored background!"

"Fucking SOLD. Buying that shit right now."

(In hindsight, I fail to see how the fuck they did sell Night Sky)


ChimeApple said:
Cavestory 3D was a failed experiment, even NiCAliS knows that!
I'm kind of - and I'm not pointing fingers at you - curious in exactly what way Nicalis stated this, if at all. Was it a failed experiment in that their ability to create a 3D port was too ambitious for what little they had to work with as a company, or was it failed in a CaveStory-in-3D-in-general kind of smug thinking?

If it's the former, it's far more understandable, but only really serves as shooting yourself in the foot to announce aloud. True, it helps defend some aspects of the game such as models seeming to lack the ability to flicker or 'wipe' out of existence, which I imagine do take some tact to put together, but it doesn't defend against the minor nitpick list above as a whole. It just makes the company look worse for releasing an incomplete product at all.

If it's the latter, which is more likely what they meant if they themselves announced this revelation, I strongly disagree. It would prove far more successful as an experiment than a failure, because it shows that the game WOULD work in 3D.

My problems with the game are all very little things that culminate together into a massive tidal wave of text, many of which are shown in other instances within the exact same game that they could have done correctly. Many of the NPCs not animating is countered by Igor legitimately swinging his fist in a full animation. Teleporters failing to fade the player character out is countered by Balrog doing a zippy-teleport wherein he becomes vertically long and horizontally thin.

It's a problem because the game is genuinely nice to look at, and for my first game on the 3DS, a great introduction to the system. Some of the 3D they used with the switch actually turned on gave the game a lot of visual depth, and overall the backgrounds are superb and a lot of fun to look at. Where they failed was consistency and effort in keeping up with the things they did right, while also simultaneously showing they CAN do them right.

If CS3D is a failure, it's because it showcases their abilities to make an excellent game, and then doesn't actually use those abilities for the remaining 95%.

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

(of course this doesn't in any way address the translation they did, which is 100% appalling, and removes any and all emotion the fan translation had. And I mean that literally - it feels like they were ACTIVELY SPITING THE FAN TRANSLATION. It's sickening.)

 
Jun 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM
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Cave Story would be quite offended he were here to see this. And I thought I disliked NICALiS...

I considered compiling a list of glitches like this myself a while back, except from Cave Story+, but I decided some might find it offensive and dismiss it as nothing more than raging at NICALiS, which apparently some think this is. I suppose there aren't a lot of posts in this thread at the moment, so I guess I'm not sure what the community's reaction to this is yet.

Anyway, in my opinion, the people at NICALiS have proven to us time and time again that they are completely incapable of releasing a port of Cave Story that is as polished as its freeware counterpart, and it shows the most in Cave Story 3D.

And I must say I kind of agree with you on your stance on NICALiS' translation of the game. I try not to be biased, but the more I look at the NICALiS translation, the more I feel that it isn't just out of bias that I think it's awful, and feel that the original translation was better. Sure there are a couple things the NICALiS translation got that the fan one missed (i.e., the password, Cthulhu in the Egg Corridor), but as a whole, I really feel that the fan translation delivers it well, and which at times makes me wonder what was going through the minds of the people at NICALiS when they wrote the new translation.

/rant
 
Jun 1, 2013 at 10:03 PM
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If they would just do something RIGHT then maybe more people would buy it. Cave Story 3DS was a gift I redirected with my 3DS, I would not have even thought to get it already, but after playing it I wonder what they even thought justified the price or even the time to do it. They should have tried high depth graphics or even something actually out of the ball park, but nope.
 
Jun 4, 2013 at 2:46 AM
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You forgot the flag retention bug, showing the Core alive and well in the credits, and the appearance of enraged Mimiga in Falling Tower after the core was destroyed.

Though I still like Cave story 3D in spite of all of this, because I like the music, I like the new backgrounds and environments, and I like the new capsule locations as they give me reason to re-explore what I previously thought was charted territory, they appeal to the completionist in me.
 
Jun 4, 2013 at 3:17 PM
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andwhyisit said:
flag retention bug
Elaborate? I'm curious if it means what I think it means. (and how to do it)
 
Jun 4, 2013 at 6:02 PM
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ZarroTsu said:
Elaborate? I'm curious if it means what I think it means. (and how to do it)
I think he's talking about the glitch where if you exit the game from the inventory screen and load up a save, it retains the flags from the area you exited. Here's an example:
 
Jun 5, 2013 at 4:29 AM
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Ah. So that's how that one 3DS vid I saw got the beast fang.

I wonder if I can break the game now to give me some weapon I shouldn't have in place of the game's startup script #200. Or does it only work for loading existing files?

EDIT: a quick check reveals that the little man himself uses event 200. HMM...

EDIT2: Can't do it off a new game, all it does is break the Kasuma event and lock you outside the map. Can do some silly reach-around shit like go from plantation straight to sacred grounds and ignore the doctor entirely. (Jeez, imagine that from a plot perspective. Crown suddenly loses power, Misery kicks the doctor in the face.)
 
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